PCM parking charge notice at my own residential car parking space

slapPCM · 6 October 2018 at 5:10PM

Hi all,

Thanks in advance for your help. I have read the newbie thread but since this is my first ever parking charge, I just want to double check with you guys please thanks.

The management company of my flat changed the parking company from UKPC to PCM this August, and BAM! Here comes the ticket. The reason being I didn't show parking permit clearly. I had it in my car but it slipped down to the gap. You can still see the permit, but not if it's the one for this space.

Please see the photos they take and ticket.
h t t p s: //imgur.com/a/C7setqj

When the management company got PCM, the company sent email saying for any parking related issues we should directly contact PCM. So I think there is not much point to contact the management company. Now, I own the flat and this particular parking space is assigned to this flat only. I don't own the parking space. In the contract with the holding company (landlord), there is the mention of this, but no parking company is ever mentioned, or anything related to displaying parking permit (I need to double check this last point, but I'd be very surprised if parking permit is mentioned).

I did a search here. My situation is almost identical to these two.
h t t p s: //forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4301037
h t t p s: //forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5711929

Obviously I am not going to pay. Got the ticket on the 16th Sep, so I have been procrastinating for quite a bit. So I wonder should I 'give it a go' to appeal since it's PCM, as suggested in the new thread? Then what should I write to appeal? I do not really want to spend a lot of time talking this nonsense with them, and if it got rejected does it affect negatively on my next step(s)?

Or should I just wait for them to send me the "Notice to keeper" letter then appeal using the template?

Thanks,
J

Coupon-mad · 6 October 2018 at 6:04PM

Now, I own the flat and this particular parking space is assigned to this flat only. I don't own the parking space.

So why have you agreed to display a permit? OPT YOUR ALLOCATED BAY OUT, NOW!

And certainly complain to the MA, they need to know that you do not accept their contractor, do not agree to this regime, an have no reason to display a permit because they have failed to gain residents' consent to vary all your leases.

Search this on this forum:

Landlord Tenant Act 75% consensus

But don't be steered by the spamming of the forum recently by a *new* poster called Eljayjay2, who was intent on steering people into a template reply that was waffly and passive aggressive.

Anyway PCM should not be let loose anywhere NEAR your car or home. Nasty lot:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2015/05/is-it-pcm-uk-who-make-up-stuff-all-time.html

slapPCM · 7 October 2018 at 1:30AM

Thanks Cm.

I will certainly find out what's going on with the PCM change. I just moved in this July so not sure when they made this decision. I assume it was voted and passed at committee meeting the company held with residents before I moved in.

I searched "Landlord Tenant Act 75% consensus" on this forum, but not sure what I am looking for. Where did I do wrong?

Anyhow, I will treat the above a separate matter. I will find out which residents are committee members, and maybe talk to them as well.

Regarding to my parking ticket, will PCM definitely send a NTK later so then I can appeal using the template?

(OK, I've read quite a bit here, seems there are other cases very similar to mine, and they all got court claim later.)

Coupon-mad · 7 October 2018 at 2:18AM

I assume it was voted and passed at committee meeting the company held with residents before I moved in.

No, it wasn't - it would have needed the leases to be varied as per the L&T Act.

I searched "Landlord Tenant Act 75% consensus" on this forum, but not sure what I am looking for. Where did I do wrong?

Searching wrong, very common!

Not knowing to hit 'advanced search' and the vital bit to see the wood from the trees:

Change the default to 'SHOW RESULTS AS POSTS' and search this board only.

Regarding to my parking ticket, will PCM definitely send a NTK later so then I can appeal using the template?

Yes, after a month but who cares about the appeal, you know it will be rejected so it's nothing to get prepped for or spend time planning!

IMHO, this ex clamper firm should NOT be near your cars & homes, there is no parking management agenda here at all. They do not deter trespassers (they don't want to).

PCM are known to be predatory, to target residents, and to completely disregard property rights until someone susses them and beats them in court and opts out of a scheme that does residents no good whatsoever.

Le_Kirk · 7 October 2018 at 10:08AM

Your links made live: -

https://imgur.com/a/C7setqj
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4301037
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5711929

slapPCM · 4 November 2018 at 5:03PM

Thanks guys. I am back with updates.

So two things. First thing is to opt-out of the PCM scam.

I found these in the leases with the landlord.

"SCHEDULE 2
RIGHTS GRANTED TO THE TENANT

8. The right (subject to observance of the regulations set out in Schedule Five as applicable) to use the Car Parking Space edged green on the Basement Plan (if any) for the parking of one private motor vehicle only Together With the right to pass and repass at all times with a vehicle or on foot (as appropriate) over and along the Estate Maintained Property as shall provide access and egress in respect of the Car Parking Space.

SCHEDULE 5
STIPULATIONS AND RESTRICTIONS

10. Each Car Parking Space (if applicable) shall be used only for the parking of one private motor cat in a good and roadworthy condition with a current MOT Certificate (where required) and bearing a valid vehicle excise licence and shall not be used for the purpose of any trade manufacture or business of any description and for the avoidance of doubt no vans commercial vehicles boats caravans or any similar items may be parked in the parking spaces and motor vehicles shall not be parked elsewhere than on parking spaces so designated and no mechanical work may be carried out to any motor vehicle parked on the Car Parking Spaces."

So I guess no mention for any parking company? How should I approach the managing company to request an opt-out? (I'm a foreigner, so not too sure how to do it in a British way haha.) Should I email or phone, and quote those terms in the lease?

Secondly, I received the NTK (well two weeks ago...)

OK I know it will be rejected, but I guess it will be no harm to still appeal using the template in the pinned post? Thanks.

"Re PCN number:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement. There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn.

Since your PCN is a vague template, I require all photos taken, a clear image of the signage and an explanation of the allegation (e.g. if you have identified a wrong VRN input at a machine, say so, and explain why your Data Protection Officer has not simply rectified it, rather than trying to punish a driver for a matter where there is nothing to deter).

I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner and to my MP, appraising all parties of the debate where Parliament agreed: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists...should not have to put up with this''. Firms of your ilk were unanimously condemned as operating an 'outrageous scam' (Hansard 2.2.18). The BPA & IPC were heavily criticised; hardly surprising for an industry where so-called AOS members admit to letting victims 'futilely go through the motions' of appeal and that 'we make it up most of the time' (BBC Watchdog).

Formal note:
Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service.
Yours faithfully,

THE NAME AND POSTAL ADDRESS OF THE KEEPER (OR THE HIRER/LESSEE) GOES HERE. THE DRIVER IS NOT IDENTIFIED. "

Coupon-mad · 5 November 2018 at 12:26AM

Yes send the dispute appeal anyway.

I found these in the leases with the landlord.

"SCHEDULE 2
RIGHTS GRANTED TO THE TENANT

8. The right (subject to observance of the regulations set out in Schedule Five as applicable) to use the Car Parking Space edged green on the Basement Plan (if any) for the parking of one private motor vehicle only Together With the right to pass and repass at all times with a vehicle or on foot (as appropriate) over and along the Estate Maintained Property as shall provide access and egress in respect of the Car Parking Space.

SCHEDULE 5
STIPULATIONS AND RESTRICTIONS

10. Each Car Parking Space (if applicable) shall be used only for the parking of one private motor cat in a good and roadworthy condition with a current MOT Certificate (where required) and bearing a valid vehicle excise licence and shall not be used for the purpose of any trade manufacture or business of any description and for the avoidance of doubt no vans commercial vehicles boats caravans or any similar items may be parked in the parking spaces and motor vehicles shall not be parked elsewhere than on parking spaces so designated and no mechanical work may be carried out to any motor vehicle parked on the Car Parking Spaces."

So I guess no mention for any parking company? How should I approach the managing company to request an opt-out? (I'm a foreigner, so not too sure how to do it in a British way haha.) Should I email or phone, and quote those terms in the lease?

Email so you can prove it later with a paper trail. DO NOT accept any phone calls to discuss this, insist it is all by email.

Quote the lease and ask to see the consensus they obtained under the L&T Act to vary the leases when they decided to foist the aggressive ex clampers, PCM, on residents, which is a derogation from grant.

State that you do not believe there was such a consensus or consultation undertaken at all, and nor does your landlord and as such, you are entitled to rely upon the primacy of the lease terms, which grant an unfettered right to park in the Car Parking Space edged green on the Basement Plan.

As such, you hereby:

- ask the managing agents to tell PCM to cancel PCN number xxxxxxx which was issued improperly against a resident with primacy of contract, and

- opt out of the parking scheme, that you never accepted, and you ask that the Managing Agents immediately inform PCM of the fact that this space is privately owned by your landlord and is exempted from any permit scheme until further notice by the resident/landlord.

I suggest that you may have to get your landlord to counter-sign to agree to the above.

slapPCM · 7 November 2018 at 12:10AM

Cm thanks a lot!

(I confused you when I said landlord, I meant the freeholder, which is the company who owns everything.)

I may need guide in the future, will report back once update is in. Thanks!

slapPCM · 15 November 2018 at 1:53AM

New update.

PCM rejected my appeal. Now, should I make another appeal to IAS? Thanks.

I still need to put up an email to my managing company.

Coupon-mad · 15 November 2018 at 2:03AM

Now, should I make another appeal to IAS? Thanks.

No. Pointless load of tripe.

Your concentration should be on the MA now.

KeithP · 15 November 2018 at 2:03AM

slapPCM wrote: »

Now, should I make another appeal to IAS?

No, don't bother.

Reasons are given in post #3 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

PCM parking charge notice at my own residential car parking space

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