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  • FIRST POST
    • wookie6
    • By wookie6 16th Jul 18, 9:11 PM
    • 228Posts
    • 20Thanks
    wookie6
    Clarification of Building Regulations for a porch?
    • #1
    • 16th Jul 18, 9:11 PM
    Clarification of Building Regulations for a porch? 16th Jul 18 at 9:11 PM
    Hi,

    I was wondering if someone could clarify the building regulations for a new porch. I am comfortable I don't need planning permission for the porch, however I am specifically wishing to know whether I need to retain the door (previously the front door to the house) between the new porch and the next room?

    I could replace the previous front door with an internal door, however I would prefer to leave the door frame in place with no door as its nicer as an open area, however I would like to know if this is permitted with respect to building regulations.

    Looking at:

    https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/46/porches/2

    It states:

    the front entrance door between the existing house and the new porch must remain in place
    Does this mean the physical door needs to remain in place or can I just leave the frame in place?

    If it does mean the physical door and I don't want to have a door, what would I need to do to get permission for this and how straight forward would this be?
Page 2
    • Furts
    • By Furts 20th Jul 18, 6:00 AM
    • 4,450 Posts
    • 2,881 Thanks
    Furts
    Its strange that the building regs apply the same rules regardless of the size of the porch... You would think a porch less than 3 Square meters (external measurements) that does not require planning permission, if built with double skinned walls and an external door wouldn't lead to any significant heat loss if opened up without the original external (now inner) door.

    I can obviously see this could be an issue if you have a large porch though...
    Originally posted by wookie6

    Because the porch does not comply with Buildings Regulations you can build it how you like. Plastic panels, single glazing, 100mm brick walls, no dpc, uninsulated floor, flat roof with felt covering, and much more are common precisely because it is unregulated.


    The Building Regulations came about to combat jerry building. This jerry building still occurs in areas not subject to these Regulations. A small porch is one example. Conservatories are another example. Both are proof that consumers, and builders, will bodge anything one can imagine if Regulations do not exist to prevent them doing this.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 20th Jul 18, 9:16 AM
    • 37,543 Posts
    • 158,027 Thanks
    silvercar
    So what happens in this scenario? You go to buy a house, find the porch doesn't meet building regs for what ever reason... what happens then?
    Originally posted by wookie6
    You'd just apply for building control approval if you'd conformed to regs. Have approval for the 'extension'.
    Originally posted by Doozergirl
    As Doozer says, you apply for approval if you'd conformed. If not, you take out an indemnity policy to cover the council taking any action (which they can't do if the porch has existed for over a year and are very unlikely to do in any case). Costs 40-100.
    • Furts
    • By Furts 20th Jul 18, 9:41 AM
    • 4,450 Posts
    • 2,881 Thanks
    Furts
    As Doozer says, you apply for approval if you'd conformed. If not, you take out an indemnity policy to cover the council taking any action (which they can't do if the porch has existed for over a year and are very unlikely to do in any case). Costs 40-100.
    Originally posted by silvercar

    Many times on mse forum somebody says take out an idemnity policy. One should stand back and analyse what this really means. This reality is a consumer is breaking the Law with regards Building Regulations. This is a conscious action. Even if ignorance is professed then ignorance is no excuse in law. So whether conscious, or unconscious, this behaviour it is still illegal behaviour.


    Instead of having morals, ethics, and values the consumer then pays an insurance company to protect them from prosecution. This concept is no different to gangland mob ethics.

    All this is also outright selfish behaviour. Why? Because the Buildings Regualtions exist for the well being of everybody - visitors, third parties, future owners, future tenants, disabled, young old and so on. The consumer does not have the jurisdiction to decide what actions suit their selfish considerations.

    Genuine people follow genuine rules and do the genuine, decent thing. It amazes me that the concept of idemnity insuarance keeps getting touted around this Forum
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 20th Jul 18, 11:05 AM
    • 25,573 Posts
    • 69,397 Thanks
    Doozergirl

    Genuine people follow genuine rules and do the genuine, decent thing. It amazes me that the concept of idemnity insuarance keeps getting touted around this Forum
    Originally posted by Furts
    It doesn't surprise me. Lenders want their risk covered and it's a large minority of houses that have these issues. You can't even double check whether approval is in place if it doesn't show up on the searches as it would invalidate any potential policy. I know that our house has more permissions than can be seen on the searches as I had the full planning history sent to me a few years go.

    Solicitors knowledge of what does and doesn't need permission is patchy at best. I dread to think how many utterly un-necessary policies are purchased or sales fall through, even, where solicitors make mistakes. We all know they're useless pieces of paper anyway.

    What is deeply ironic is that lenders effectively demand these policies for relatively minor works, when compared to the fact that most houses are Period houses and built on virtually nonexistent foundations for a start.

    The real issue isn't the indemnity policy. There's no guarantees that the house is in the same condition that it was when even BCA was saught; no guarantee that there hasn't been subsequent work, no guarantee that new BCA with a vague title (which they all have) doesn't end up coverage previous non-compliant work. (eg. "New Windows" - how many and where? You only see the headline)

    It's fine to recommend indemnity policies. What it should go hand in hand with, without fail, is that you purchase the indemnity policy only if you and your surveyor/structural engineer are satisfied that the work carried out is safe. We do know that houses will stand up even when work falls short of Building Regulations, because the houses themselves almost always aren't built to the same standards. The fireproofing around the RSJ we put in here isn't going to help much when the rest of the house has burnt down and given way.

    I think that people in the past were happy to bypass the regulations. I think that the requirement that mortgage lenders put in place is helping to tidy building work up and get people to follow proper procedures when they have work carried out. Most of the time when this crops up on the forum, the work is pretty old. I think that's a sign of improving standards and expectations.

    In the case of a porch that doesn't meet regs, I'd be putting the door on it, not buying a policy.
    Last edited by Doozergirl; 20-07-2018 at 11:09 AM.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • wookie6
    • By wookie6 12th Aug 18, 8:52 AM
    • 228 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    wookie6
    Doozergirl - You seem very knowledgeable on this subject. If replacing an existing external door with a new external door (this door is now inside the property), does the replacement external door need to have a lock? (as the previous external door would have done prior to the porch being built) or can you just have a normal open / close handle on the replacement external door?
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 12th Aug 18, 9:07 AM
    • 25,573 Posts
    • 69,397 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    It's the door that is important to retain heat in the house, not the lock. As long as it shuts, it's fine.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • wookie6
    • By wookie6 12th Aug 18, 10:34 AM
    • 228 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    wookie6
    Thanks again, much appreciated!
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