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  • FIRST POST
    • passinghamt
    • By passinghamt 5th Jul 18, 12:41 PM
    • 17Posts
    • 1Thanks
    passinghamt
    Do I need a mobile phone to make an online transaction?
    • #1
    • 5th Jul 18, 12:41 PM
    Do I need a mobile phone to make an online transaction? 5th Jul 18 at 12:41 PM
    My bank has told me it will insist that I receive an SMS message on my mobile when I make an online transaction with their credit or debit card. They claim this is down to new industry-wide regulations and they cannot support any other method.

    What does the industry expect people to do when they either have no mobile phone (or need to buy one online because their old one doesn't work!) or who live in areas with no reception?

    Surely there must be alternatives, whether by landline, or email, or some other device that can generate a code independently? If not I would claim this is a discriminatory practice, saying you can't do internet shopping without a mobile phone.
Page 1
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 5th Jul 18, 12:44 PM
    • 33,867 Posts
    • 39,998 Thanks
    Browntoa
    • #2
    • 5th Jul 18, 12:44 PM
    • #2
    • 5th Jul 18, 12:44 PM
    Email can be hacked , landline can be intercepted , mobile needs to be in your hands at the time of purchase.

    It's not descrimitory
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • zx81
    • By zx81 5th Jul 18, 12:45 PM
    • 19,389 Posts
    • 20,716 Thanks
    zx81
    • #3
    • 5th Jul 18, 12:45 PM
    • #3
    • 5th Jul 18, 12:45 PM
    Ask if you can receive it on your landline. Obviously you would need to be at home for this to work.
    • madvicker
    • By madvicker 5th Jul 18, 12:56 PM
    • 146 Posts
    • 100 Thanks
    madvicker
    • #4
    • 5th Jul 18, 12:56 PM
    • #4
    • 5th Jul 18, 12:56 PM
    It comes down to PSD2 regulations. Without getting technical, it means that all online transactions must go through 2-factor authentication. There are exceptions, but in general it will mean that in future your mobile will be used to authenticate your transactions. And it doesn't discriminate, if everyone needs to do it, then that is not discriminating.....
    • Chino
    • By Chino 5th Jul 18, 3:02 PM
    • 577 Posts
    • 306 Thanks
    Chino
    • #5
    • 5th Jul 18, 3:02 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Jul 18, 3:02 PM
    mobile needs to be in your hands at the time of purchase.
    Originally posted by Browntoa
    Well, that may be the theory but...
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/apr/16/sim-swap-fraud-mobile-banking-fraudsters

    The solution for the OP is to vote with his or her feet and choose a card issuer that offers more options for cardholder verification.
    • jimbo26
    • By jimbo26 5th Jul 18, 3:14 PM
    • 528 Posts
    • 319 Thanks
    jimbo26
    • #6
    • 5th Jul 18, 3:14 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Jul 18, 3:14 PM
    In any case it isn't illegal to discriminate on the basis of mobile phone ownership. A term often banded about but discrimination is only illegal if it is used to discriminate against race, religion sex, to name a few. Full list here, but mobile phones aren't on it. https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights

    Buy a cheap phone and a 1 PAYG SIM.
    • safestored4
    • By safestored4 5th Jul 18, 7:29 PM
    • 447 Posts
    • 425 Thanks
    safestored4
    • #7
    • 5th Jul 18, 7:29 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Jul 18, 7:29 PM
    I bank with NatWest and don!!!8217;t have a mobile phone. When I paid my Barclaycard account this week online they conducted the verification process via my landline. So not all financial institutions are adopting the approach taken here. I!!!8217;d switch my account to a bank that seems to have some regard for its customers wishes.
    • Fingerbobs
    • By Fingerbobs 5th Jul 18, 11:26 PM
    • 494 Posts
    • 139 Thanks
    Fingerbobs
    • #8
    • 5th Jul 18, 11:26 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Jul 18, 11:26 PM
    Buy a cheap phone and a 1 PAYG SIM.
    Originally posted by jimbo26
    Or order a PAYG SIM totally free from one of the mobile phone network's web sites? No need to even pay 1.
    • passinghamt
    • By passinghamt 6th Jul 18, 7:12 AM
    • 17 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    passinghamt
    • #9
    • 6th Jul 18, 7:12 AM
    • #9
    • 6th Jul 18, 7:12 AM
    What do people do when there is no mobile signal?

    I realise that I used the word 'discrimination' which has a much deeper legal meaning, but nonetheless I do believe such a policy does adversely effect some people, and that this is unfair and avoidable.

    Further, there are many articles on the web saying that SMS is not secure enough to satisfy PSD2. This is one. https://www.eba.europa.eu/regulation-and-policy/payment-services-and-electronic-money/regulatory-technical-standards-on-strong-customer-authentication-and-secure-communication-under-psd2?p_p_auth=h2QgTfXh&p_p_id=169&p_p_lifecycle=0& p_p_state=maximized&p_p_col_id=column-2&p_p_col_pos=1&p_p_col_count=2&_169_struts_action =%2Fdynamic_data_list_display%2Fview_record&_169_r ecordId=1363567
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 6th Jul 18, 7:51 AM
    • 33,867 Posts
    • 39,998 Thanks
    Browntoa
    Well, that may be the theory but...
    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/apr/16/sim-swap-fraud-mobile-banking-fraudsters

    The solution for the OP is to vote with his or her feet and choose a card issuer that offers more options for cardholder verification.
    Originally posted by Chino
    SIM swaps can only happen if people are careless with their personal data ( I cannot believe the amount of personal
    data people freely give out on Facebook and Instagram or blogs )and a friendly shop worker or call centre worker in most cases.

    I use facial recognition and fingerprint access for online banking , are we also going to say that it's unfair to people without devices capable of doing that.

    2 step is a necessary evil to stop fraud , as fraud adapts down the line expect even more changes

    We are all paying the price for people's carelessness , clicking on links in emails to install that bit of software or " verifying their personal details" on that fake web page . Openly posting birthday , address etc on Facebook without locking down their security levels so nobody apart from close friends can see it . Throwing out bank statements etc in the bin bag without shredding . People's stupidity is forcing us down this route .
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • passinghamt
    • By passinghamt 6th Jul 18, 2:06 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    passinghamt
    SIM swaps can only happen if people are careless with their personal data ( I cannot believe the amount of personal
    data people freely give out on Facebook and Instagram or blogs )and a friendly shop worker or call centre worker in most cases.

    I use facial recognition and fingerprint access for online banking , are we also going to say that it's unfair to people without devices capable of doing that.

    2 step is a necessary evil to stop fraud , as fraud adapts down the line expect even more changes

    We are all paying the price for people's carelessness , clicking on links in emails to install that bit of software or " verifying their personal details" on that fake web page . Openly posting birthday , address etc on Facebook without locking down their security levels so nobody apart from close friends can see it . Throwing out bank statements etc in the bin bag without shredding . People's stupidity is forcing us down this route .
    Originally posted by Browntoa
    To repeat, what do people do if they have no mobile phone signal?

    The industry need to provide an additional solution that does not reply on mobile phones. For instance, many banks in the UK provide personal card readers that require the users pin to be entered and then display a verification number. That would be a good solution, not relying on mobile devices that are prone to many different security problems and signal failures.
    • 2ilent8cho
    • By 2ilent8cho 6th Jul 18, 2:25 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    2ilent8cho
    To repeat, what do people do if they have no mobile phone signal?
    .
    Originally posted by passinghamt

    https://ee.co.uk/help/help-new/general/signal-box/improve-your-signal-at-home-using-signal-box

    They would get one of these? Which plugs into the broadband they are using to make this online transaction.

    or

    change to a network that has signal where they live.
    • jimbo26
    • By jimbo26 6th Jul 18, 2:28 PM
    • 528 Posts
    • 319 Thanks
    jimbo26
    It isn't an industry wide problem, just an issue with your bank. If they can't resolve this to your satisfaction then you should look at moving to a bank that will accommodate your needs
    • Carrot007
    • By Carrot007 6th Jul 18, 2:30 PM
    • 1,727 Posts
    • 1,471 Thanks
    Carrot007
    My bank has told me it will insist that I receive an SMS message on my mobile when I make an online transaction with their credit or debit card. They claim this is down to new industry-wide regulations and they cannot support any other method.
    Originally posted by passinghamt

    There is no reason the SMS cannot be sent you your landline.


    It's just a code you enter and your landline will read the mesasge to you.


    Of course they could refuse to have your landline as a mobile number.


    If they cared about security they would send the message to your banking app on your phone anyway.


    Halifax does this with me and the landline is fine for recieving messages. The OH gets a message to the landline to when loggin in on C1.


    And yes it is discriminatory. But it is legally discriminatory. You have no right to be able to make online transactions.
    Last edited by Carrot007; 06-07-2018 at 2:33 PM.
    • takman
    • By takman 6th Jul 18, 2:56 PM
    • 3,777 Posts
    • 3,436 Thanks
    takman
    To repeat, what do people do if they have no mobile phone signal?

    The industry need to provide an additional solution that does not reply on mobile phones. For instance, many banks in the UK provide personal card readers that require the users pin to be entered and then display a verification number. That would be a good solution, not relying on mobile devices that are prone to many different security problems and signal failures.
    Originally posted by passinghamt
    I wonder how many people who make purchases online have no mobile phone (not even one they keep for emergencies) and no landline (which can receive text messages as stated above)?.

    I can't imagine many it would be many people at all.
    • passinghamt
    • By passinghamt 8th Jul 18, 9:29 AM
    • 17 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    passinghamt
    I've seen statistics saying 95% of households (not necessarily people) own mobiles.

    If text to landlines works I have no problem with that as an option.
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 8th Jul 18, 10:26 AM
    • 3,023 Posts
    • 2,071 Thanks
    Tom99
    Could a virtual phone number be used?
    • eDicky
    • By eDicky 8th Jul 18, 10:29 AM
    • 3,925 Posts
    • 2,079 Thanks
    eDicky
    Could a virtual phone number be used?
    Originally posted by Tom99
    What system or provider do you have in mind?
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 8th Jul 18, 10:38 AM
    • 3,023 Posts
    • 2,071 Thanks
    Tom99
    What system or provider do you have in mind?
    Originally posted by eDicky

    No particular one. I remember trying one when activating Whatsapp on a tablet with no sim card.
    • bris
    • By bris 8th Jul 18, 11:16 AM
    • 8,063 Posts
    • 7,048 Thanks
    bris
    Change banks, their bank their rules.


    I do most of my shopping online and have never had to verify the transactions via mobile phone.
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