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    • Pamash11
    • By Pamash11 11th May 18, 7:17 PM
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    Pamash11
    EDF - problem with final bill
    • #1
    • 11th May 18, 7:17 PM
    EDF - problem with final bill 11th May 18 at 7:17 PM
    Hi guys,
    Hope I am posting this in the right category.

    So I am having a complete nightmare with EDF regarding a final bill from them after I switched supplier. A bit of a back story:
    I was with EDF for a number of years,mother always sent me estimated bills that I would have to correct by sending them actual meter readings for them to produce a bill. We'll end of 2016, they sent me a letter saying they had been under charging me and promptly sent me a 2400 bill! After going back and forth trying to dispute this and involving the very unhelpful and biased Ombudsman, I had their charity pay the bill end of September. I switched supplier as soon I could and found a deal with M&S energy paying 35 a month. My switch over did not start until December 9th 2017 and I did the usual with my new supplier by sending them my meter reads. During this time, I did not get anyone from EDF to read the meter like they usually did when I attempted to leave. So come January, I get a bill from EDF for 619! This is a bill for 27th September - 9th December. The readings were heavily exaggerated by a few thousand KW, in fact my day read is 2000kw into the future. I called EDF about this and they argued with me saying my new supplier gave them these meter reads and so that is the bill. The meter reads I gave my new supplier are no where near what EDF are trying to bill me for. We have been going back and fourth on this issue, I have even given the meter reads in case they made a mistake but they are simply refusing to correct my bill and bill me to the correct readings. The man I spoke to yesterday even tried to get my present meter reads so they can work out my bill from that! He says the bill is fixed in some kind of permanent template they cannot change and if I want this changed, I need to get certified letters from M&S energy to say these meter reads are true because apparently am a liar who is trying to give them false meter reads.
    While all this is in dispute, they have passed on my account to a company called LCS, a debt collector who is calling, texting, emailing and sending me letters every single day. I do not dispute I owe EDF money for energy used between 27th Sept - 9th Dec, I just want them to send me the correct bill from actual meter readings they have, not the meter readings they made up.

    What do I do with this situation? I am disputing this issue and I feel like am been bullied to pay for something I do not owe and the company is not looking into my dispute or taking it serious since the account has been passed on to collection while it is actively in dispute.
Page 1
    • molerat
    • By molerat 11th May 18, 7:27 PM
    • 19,578 Posts
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    molerat
    • #2
    • 11th May 18, 7:27 PM
    • #2
    • 11th May 18, 7:27 PM
    Does the EDF closing meter read differ from the opening read on the first bill from your new supplier ? If they differ you simply raise a written complaint with EDF using your opening bill as evidence. If you are contacted by the debt collectors you tell them the debt is in dispute and return it to the originator, any further contact by them will be treated as harassment. If EDF do not come to a satisfactory resolution within 8 weeks you refer the case to the ombudsman.
    Last edited by molerat; 11-05-2018 at 7:32 PM.
    https://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/give-support/donate-now/
    • Pamash11
    • By Pamash11 11th May 18, 7:36 PM
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    Pamash11
    • #3
    • 11th May 18, 7:36 PM
    • #3
    • 11th May 18, 7:36 PM
    Yes it does. I had issues with EDF sending estimated bills and then arguing with me that they are right and am wrong, so I have a habit of writing down my weekly meter reads. The meter reads I took on 9th December, the meter reads M&S energy have and what EDF claims to have received from M&S energy are 2 completely different readings. They are refusing to take my meter reads, the reads on my first bill and demanding I prove am right by getting certified letter from M&S energy stating my meter reads.
    • Pamash11
    • By Pamash11 11th May 18, 7:40 PM
    • 11 Posts
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    Pamash11
    • #4
    • 11th May 18, 7:40 PM
    • #4
    • 11th May 18, 7:40 PM
    I asked LCS, the account was passed on to them early last month while I was still talking to EDF trying to resolve this. The debt collector is refusing to back off stating this account is active and EDF has told them the money is owed. This was today. So they are not taking my dispute or complaints seriously.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 11th May 18, 7:52 PM
    • 6,572 Posts
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    Hengus
    • #5
    • 11th May 18, 7:52 PM
    • #5
    • 11th May 18, 7:52 PM
    All meter readings on a transfer of supply are verified by an independent third party to avoid any disputes. The verified readings are used to open and close your accounts. If the verified meter readings differ from the ones that you provided, then an Agreed Readings Dispute can be initiated.

    That said, disputes can only be raised if the difference between the readings is sufficiently high. If the difference is more than 1200 kWh for gas, or 250 kWh for electricity, then the dispute can be raised; if the difference is within these values, the readings are deemed to be accurate, and the dispute cannot be raised. These are the values set by OFGEM, to regulate disputes. In sum, you will not pay for the same energy twice.

    I have to ask. What usage in kWhs/year is the 35 M&S deal based upon? Simple maths indicate that if you paid nothing, it would take you nearly 6 years to accrue 2400s worth of debt. My worry is that you may be underestimating how much energy Is being consumed. A 2400 debt does not happen overnight if you have been providing regular meter readings. What does the last statement from EDF give for estimated annual consumption?
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 11th May 18, 8:01 PM
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    Hengus
    • #6
    • 11th May 18, 8:01 PM
    • #6
    • 11th May 18, 8:01 PM
    Yes it does.
    Originally posted by Pamash11
    If the opening and closing readings are not the same then this is something for the GAINING supplier (M&S) to resolve as it has the Licence obligation to manage all aspects of a transfer of supply. This includes getting the meter readings that you have provided verified.

    https://octopus.energy/blog/secret-life-opening-meter-reading/
    • Pamash11
    • By Pamash11 11th May 18, 8:40 PM
    • 11 Posts
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    Pamash11
    • #7
    • 11th May 18, 8:40 PM
    • #7
    • 11th May 18, 8:40 PM
    I live in a small 2 bed flat with only electric and no gas supply. The difference in the meter readings is more than 250kwh, in fact my current day meter read does not even match the day read EDF claims to have got from M&S energy as I will probably get to that usage end of next year. All this evidence means nothing and EDF have turned it around to make it seem like I am lying. I was with EDF from 2014 paying 66 a month, they would usually send me an estimated bill into the 100s and it would come down to about 50-66 after I send them actual meter reads. I tried to leave twice and every single time I did they would send a meter man to read the meter and say actually we have been undercharging you, you owe us 700 and can't switch supplier with this debt. This was in 2015. I cleared the debt thinking these things happen I suppose. Tried to switch supplier again in 2016 and again they sent someone to read the meter and this time sent me a 2400 bill saying they had been under charging me. This is when I completely lost it because didn't we just sort this out for this same period regarding under charging?! It was a complete nightmare and no one was helpful with my case. Not OFGEM and not the ombudsman. It really took a toll on my mental health and just couldn't fight with this giant corporation anymore. I turned to their charity who cleared the bill and I switched supplier as soon as I could. And now this claim I owe them 619 as my final bill for 27th Sept 2017-9th Dec 2017.
    I am on a 2 year fixed plan with M&S. They quoted me 35 based on my energy use but this plan will be reviewed every year just so I am not under or over paying. I use 5 or less of electricity a week in the summer and about 12 a week in the winter on a really cold week, I have economy 7 and had to learn how to work out my energy consumption after the EDF drama.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 11th May 18, 9:06 PM
    • 6,572 Posts
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    Hengus
    • #8
    • 11th May 18, 9:06 PM
    • #8
    • 11th May 18, 9:06 PM
    I live in a small 2 bed flat with only electric and no gas supply. The difference in the meter readings is more than 250kwh, in fact my current day meter read does not even match the day read EDF claims to have got from M&S energy as I will probably get to that usage end of next year. All this evidence means nothing and EDF have turned it around to make it seem like I am lying. I was with EDF from 2014 paying 66 a month, they would usually send me an estimated bill into the 100s and it would come down to about 50-66 after I send them actual meter reads. I tried to leave twice and every single time I did they would send a meter man to read the meter and say actually we have been undercharging you, you owe us 700 and can't switch supplier with this debt. This was in 2015. I cleared the debt thinking these things happen I suppose. Tried to switch supplier again in 2016 and again they sent someone to read the meter and this time sent me a 2400 bill saying they had been under charging me. This is when I completely lost it because didn't we just sort this out for this same period regarding under charging?! It was a complete nightmare and no one was helpful with my case. Not OFGEM and not the ombudsman. It really took a toll on my mental health and just couldn't fight with this giant corporation anymore. I turned to their charity who cleared the bill and I switched supplier as soon as I could. And now this claim I owe them 619 as my final bill for 27th Sept 2017-9th Dec 2017.
    I am on a 2 year fixed plan with M&S. They quoted me 35 based on my energy use but this plan will be reviewed every year just so I am not under or over paying. I use 5 or less of electricity a week in the summer and about 12 a week in the winter on a really cold week, I have economy 7 and had to learn how to work out my energy consumption after the EDF drama.
    Originally posted by Pamash11
    There is something not right here. EDF will not accept any meter readings from you as they have been passed a verified meter reading by M&S to close your account. You need to check that the reading on your Final Bill from EDF and your M&S opening bill are the same. If they are not, then contact M&S and provide them with a photo of your meter to show the discrepancy. They will then initiate a formal Agreed Readings Dispute.

    What I find concerning is that you were paying 66 a month in 2014 and now M&S wants only 35 a month. How was the 35 a month calculated? My worry here is that come the time when your account is reviewed, you could find that the 35 a month increases markedly.

    For example, if your annual cost (based on tariff and kWhs/year) should be 75 a month/900 a year and you are only paying 35 a month then then the calculation goes like this:

    Amount paid in Year 1 = 420

    Amount that should have been paid = 900

    Amount due for Year 2 = 900 plus underpayment for Year 1 = 1380 or 115 per month.

    Given the way that energy costs have risen since 2014, it is not possible to pay 66 a month then and accrue a debt and pay 35 a month now. The 35 a month must be based on small amount of usage.

    If I were you, I would seek the advice of an energy advisor at Citizens Advice. They have an Extra Help Unit that has direct access to senior energy company executives.
    Last edited by Hengus; 11-05-2018 at 9:09 PM.
    • Pamash11
    • By Pamash11 11th May 18, 9:31 PM
    • 11 Posts
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    Pamash11
    • #9
    • 11th May 18, 9:31 PM
    • #9
    • 11th May 18, 9:31 PM
    The thing is, EDF did ask me to provide my meter readings if I was disputing the bill. I have this evidence in writing and email from them asking me to give them my readings. When I did, I was told they would look into this and get back to me but instead passed the account to a debt collector. I had called the debt collector when I was first made aware of their involvement, they put the account on hold to get back to EDF and got back to me to say they won't back off as the account is valid and money owed. I called EDF who told me they can't accept my meter readings, after asking me to provide them so they could rectify the bill, and that I need to get in touch with M&S energy to get a verified letter befor they can look into it. I just want to pay them what I actually owe them and be done with them for good.

    For M&S, they came up with that quote after going over my usage and past meter reads. To be honest, the energy consumption in my flat is quite low. I have storage heaters that only come on during really cold weeks, all plugs are turned off, boiler is only on to run a hot bath and turned off again, 2 loads of washing over the weekends only. The only 'large' use of energy is when I am making a big meal that will require the hub and oven. The only thing constantly on is the fridge and I don't really have or need anymore appliances than the standard white goods in the kitchen. Could have been my tariff with EDF was really high and am on the cheapest with M&S. I don't mind paying for any under usage as long as it clearly explained and fair, unlike the under charging bills I was getting from EDF.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 11th May 18, 9:45 PM
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    Hengus
    The thing is, EDF did ask me to provide my meter readings if I was disputing the bill. I have this evidence in writing and email from them asking me to give them my readings. When I did, I was told they would look into this and get back to me but instead passed the account to a debt collector. I had called the debt collector when I was first made aware of their involvement, they put the account on hold to get back to EDF and got back to me to say they won't back off as the account is valid and money owed. I called EDF who told me they can't accept my meter readings, after asking me to provide them so they could rectify the bill, and that I need to get in touch with M&S energy to get a verified letter befor they can look into it. I just want to pay them what I actually owe them and be done with them for good.

    For M&S, they came up with that quote after going over my usage and past meter reads. To be honest, the energy consumption in my flat is quite low. I have storage heaters that only come on during really cold weeks, all plugs are turned off, boiler is only on to run a hot bath and turned off again, 2 loads of washing over the weekends only. The only 'large' use of energy is when I am making a big meal that will require the hub and oven. The only thing constantly on is the fridge and I don't really have or need anymore appliances than the standard white goods in the kitchen. Could have been my tariff with EDF was really high and am on the cheapest with M&S. I don't mind paying for any under usage as long as it clearly explained and fair, unlike the under charging bills I was getting from EDF.
    Originally posted by Pamash11
    Please go and get advice/help from Citizens Advice before this escalates into a full debt recovery situation. Take all your old EDF statements and a photograph of your present meter readings with you. They can and will help you sort this out and they will check that you are paying M&S an amount that will cover your usage. If EDF has received a verified closing meter reading from the Data Collectors to close your account, they cannot accept revised meter readings from you just because you believe them to be wrong. Your account with EDF is now effectively closed.
    • dogshome
    • By dogshome 12th May 18, 7:34 AM
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    dogshome
    Just a thought

    The OP has taken meter readings, but then an EDF meter reader has soon after recorded something much higher.
    If this 2 bed flat is in a block that has all the meters housed together in a service room, there is the possibilty that EDF or the OP are reading the wrong meter - This is a common problem in flats.

    What is the meter serial No. on the bills v that on the meter the OP is reading ?
    • Colin_Maybe
    • By Colin_Maybe 12th May 18, 7:57 AM
    • 3,072 Posts
    • 1,587 Thanks
    Colin_Maybe
    I was with EDF from 2014 paying 66 a month, they would usually send me an estimated bill into the 100s and it would come down to about 50-66 after I send them actual meter reads. I tried to leave twice and every single time I did they would send a meter man to read the meter and say actually we have been undercharging you, you owe us 700 and can't switch supplier with this debt. This was in 2015. I cleared the debt thinking these things happen I suppose. Tried to switch supplier again in 2016 and again they sent someone to read the meter and this time sent me a 2400 bill saying they had been under charging me.

    I turned to their charity who cleared the bill and I switched supplier as soon as I could. And now this claim I owe them 619 as my final bill for 27th Sept 2017-9th Dec 2017.
    I am on a 2 year fixed plan with M&S. They quoted me 35 based on my energy use but this plan will be reviewed every year just so I am not under or over paying. I use 5 or less of electricity a week in the summer and about 12 a week in the winter on a really cold week, I have economy 7 and had to learn how to work out my energy consumption after the EDF drama.
    Originally posted by Pamash11
    As said previously EDF could be reading the wrong meter but equally so could you be. Are you absolutely sure of this?

    If this charity cleared the bill then would they not ensure it's actually owed first?

    EDF would have sent a meter reader more often then just when you tried to switch, you would have had notice of the underpayment at that time I presume?

    M&S gave you the 35 quote based on usage given by you, that doesn't mean it's accurate and as said earlier you could just be building up a brand new debt which will drop in a years time. 35 seems awfully low, I'd say another 30 added on top would be nearer the mark.
    • bhjm
    • By bhjm 12th May 18, 8:33 AM
    • 95 Posts
    • 36 Thanks
    bhjm
    i had similar issues with EDF - they sent me an final bill with the meter readings far far in the future. my current supplier told me when the switch will be happened and i need to sent them meter readings. what i did. account was opened with this reading, the numbers were verified and a couple of months later - EDF sent the letter with the final bill. I checked their readings - which were are still not on the meter reader and sent a kind letter back that they should provide me if their verified meter readings. Since then - never heard anything.
    • Pamash11
    • By Pamash11 12th May 18, 8:45 PM
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    Pamash11
    Definitely reading my meter. The way the flats are set up, I have one flat opposite me and I share the one entrance to our flats with them. There are two meters at the bottom of the stairs/entrance, one on my side (my meter) and another on the neighbor's wall, their meter is a pre paid meter. So it is not possible to read anyone else's meter as all the other flats have a similar private entrance/2 flats per entry set up.
    • Pamash11
    • By Pamash11 12th May 18, 8:58 PM
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    Pamash11
    As said previously EDF could be reading the wrong meter but equally so could you be. Are you absolutely sure of this?

    If this charity cleared the bill then would they not ensure it's actually owed first?

    EDF would have sent a meter reader more often then just when you tried to switch, you would have had notice of the underpayment at that time I presume?

    M&S gave you the 35 quote based on usage given by you, that doesn't mean it's accurate and as said earlier you could just be building up a brand new debt which will drop in a years time. 35 seems awfully low, I'd say another 30 added on top would be nearer the mark.
    Originally posted by Colin_Maybe
    I had a massive row with EDF over the underpayment issue. Equally, EDF should have resolved the underpayment issue the first time they sent a meter man and discovered I was undercharged. I didn't really argue the first time and just paid up. The second time they claimed they undercharged, it was for the same period they claimed they under charged me for the first time. So I was undercharged twice for the same period. I received all my bills electronically, when EDF sent me the under charged bill the second time, they removed all previous bills after 2014 and rolled them up into one bill saying this is what I owed. The new 'bill' didn't have previous meter reads so it was left up to me to prove I was right with no meter reads to challenge the under payment bill. It was an absolute nightmare. I applied to the charity because I was stressed and absolutely no way I could pay what they were asking and couldn't stay with EDF. The charity is part of EDF so essentially they paid themselves I guess?
    I take my meter reads every week and not used up a lot of kWh wince the switch but will give M&S a call just in case we should adjust what am paying.
    Also definitely reading the right meter.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 12th May 18, 9:34 PM
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    Hengus
    So it!!!8217;s not the wrong meter; EDF has a verified closing meter reading from the Data Collectors and based on this reading it has calculated that you owe them 619. They will only change the meter reading if M&S agrees. Meanwhile they have passed the debt on to debt collectors. You have received advice from a number of posters; what do you intend to do next?
    • Pamash11
    • By Pamash11 14th May 18, 4:21 PM
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    Pamash11
    So it!!!8217;s not the wrong meter; EDF has a verified closing meter reading from the Data Collectors and based on this reading it has calculated that you owe them 619. They will only change the meter reading if M&S agrees. Meanwhile they have passed the debt on to debt collectors. You have received advice from a number of posters; what do you intend to do next?
    Originally posted by Hengus
    I do not owe them 619 because the so called verified meter readings EDF have based my bill on are wrong! The meter readings I gave M&S energy and the so called verified readings EDF have are different readings, they do not match. Not only do they not match but EDF readings are way into the future, usage I have not even reached yet. So they are wrong and I do not owe them that much.

    I have been in touch with EDF again who say they have passed my case on to a specialist team, they have taken my meter readings this time and said they will look into it and claimed they recalled the case from the debt collector. Will see what happens but I am in contact wit Citizens advice just in case.
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