Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Bentles
    • By Bentles 11th May 18, 3:23 PM
    • 12Posts
    • 8Thanks
    Bentles
    ECP - 25mins over - appeal failed
    • #1
    • 11th May 18, 3:23 PM
    ECP - 25mins over - appeal failed 11th May 18 at 3:23 PM
    Hi.

    I think what you guys are doing here is wonderful.

    Unique situation here has the car is owned by my friend who I pay monthly so I could get a mortgage, when she got the pcn I had no choice but to admit I was driving as I didnít want her to go through all this

    My appeal was simple. I arrived on site at 17:06, left at 19:31 and paid for a two hour ticket ad 19:13. When I got back to my car my phone wasnít charged so I had to wait 15 mins for my sat Nav. I didnít know where I was going and I didnít realise there was npr.

    Today my appeal failed. I want to make sure my appeal to popla is successful and would appreciate all help available.

    Signage was clear. Theyíve sent a pic of my number plate.

    Any advice appreciated. Iím worried Iím going to be one of those 1% who has to pay
Page 1
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 11th May 18, 3:42 PM
    • 3,228 Posts
    • 4,988 Thanks
    fisherjim
    • #2
    • 11th May 18, 3:42 PM
    • #2
    • 11th May 18, 3:42 PM
    If that was your appeal point for goodness sake don't use that at POPLA!


    "Signage was clear"

    Was it?


    "I didnít realise there was npr."

    Well the signage wasn't clear was it then was it?
    It's up to them to prove that!

    You need to now formulate a POPLA appeal by research on here not what happened, forget your sat nav excuses etc it's got to be procedural, signage technical etc etc


    If this is Euro Car Parks why on earth would you consider paying them a bean?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 11th May 18, 3:45 PM
    • 37,495 Posts
    • 21,711 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #3
    • 11th May 18, 3:45 PM
    • #3
    • 11th May 18, 3:45 PM
    All advice on popla is to be found in the Newbies FAQ thread near the top of the forum

    See #3 there
    • Bentles
    • By Bentles 11th May 18, 4:19 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Bentles
    • #4
    • 11th May 18, 4:19 PM
    • #4
    • 11th May 18, 4:19 PM
    Hi. I!!!8217;ve found a few sample letters I could use. The only problem here is that I!!!8217;m the driver, not the registered keeper, as explained to ecp. Ecp have now issued me the appeal rejected letter asking me to pay? In this instance how would I lead with my popla appeal?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 11th May 18, 4:23 PM
    • 9,767 Posts
    • 10,125 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #5
    • 11th May 18, 4:23 PM
    • #5
    • 11th May 18, 4:23 PM
    Look at other PoPLA appeals and formulate your own.

    Have you read post #3 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread yet, as suggested by Quentin earlier?

    There are plenty of appeal points linked from that post.
    .
    • Bentles
    • By Bentles 11th May 18, 4:34 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Bentles
    • #6
    • 11th May 18, 4:34 PM
    • #6
    • 11th May 18, 4:34 PM
    Iím just struggling a bit with being the driver not the registered keeper
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 11th May 18, 5:32 PM
    • 37,495 Posts
    • 21,711 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #7
    • 11th May 18, 5:32 PM
    • #7
    • 11th May 18, 5:32 PM
    Then you cannot use any of the "no keeper liability" defences.

    You still have all the other non keeper related defence points to consider using
    • waamo
    • By waamo 11th May 18, 6:02 PM
    • 4,427 Posts
    • 5,816 Thanks
    waamo
    • #8
    • 11th May 18, 6:02 PM
    • #8
    • 11th May 18, 6:02 PM
    As you assert the signage was clear then how much bigger than the minimum standard was the small print?

    What does the landowner contract say about cancellation? You must have read it.

    What grace period do they allow? Is it in line with the code of practice?

    Have they followed the code of practice to the letter?
    This space for hire.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th May 18, 6:54 PM
    • 62,736 Posts
    • 75,659 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 11th May 18, 6:54 PM
    • #9
    • 11th May 18, 6:54 PM
    I'm just struggling a bit with being the driver not the registered keeper
    Originally posted by Bentles
    Why?

    People do POPLA appeals here all the time here when they've blabbed about who was driving, and the template POPLA points in post #3 of the NEWBIES thread apply, except the one about 'no keeper liability'. And if a person loses at POPLA here, they just ignore the eejits; no-one PAYS!

    I'd expect you to use three of our standard template points. Obviously no PPC signs are 'clear'.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 11-05-2018 at 8:39 PM.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 11th May 18, 7:07 PM
    • 4,427 Posts
    • 5,816 Thanks
    waamo
    Nice to see you telling people to make fraudulent claims and representations.....

    Seems to be a theme on this board.
    Originally posted by Tarambor
    Wtf are you on about? If you assert at POPLA the signs aren't clear then all the ppc has to do is show they are. That's how the law works, you are entitled to a defence.

    They never are clear so people win. It's entirely lawful and isn't misrepresentation or fraud.
    This space for hire.
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 12th May 18, 7:23 AM
    • 10,618 Posts
    • 9,976 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    Wtf are you on about? If you assert at POPLA the signs aren't clear then all the ppc has to do is show they are. That's how the law works, you are entitled to a defence.

    They never are clear so people win. It's entirely lawful and isn't misrepresentation or fraud.
    Originally posted by waamo
    So no one would ever lose at POPLA then?

    You have to do more than say the signs were not clear or up to standard. You have to have some photographic evidence.

    As coupon-mad says, you need to add the other relevant technical points as well.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 12th May 18, 11:55 AM
    • 4,427 Posts
    • 5,816 Thanks
    waamo
    So no one would ever lose at POPLA then?

    You have to do more than say the signs were not clear or up to standard. You have to have some photographic evidence.

    As coupon-mad says, you need to add the other relevant technical points as well.
    Originally posted by Guys Dad
    I wasn't suggesting a single appeal point should be used. I was replying to a now deleted post that suggested telling POPLA the signage is poor was somehow fraudulent.

    For the sake of clarity I agree multiple appeal points should be used.
    This space for hire.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th May 18, 1:15 AM
    • 62,736 Posts
    • 75,659 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Tarambor's post has gone, peace is restored. Now we await Bentles' draft POPLA appeal.
    • Bentles
    • By Bentles 13th May 18, 1:28 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Bentles
    My job for my days off this week.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th May 18, 1:42 AM
    • 62,736 Posts
    • 75,659 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Helping people here is what I usually do on my days off!
    • Bentles
    • By Bentles 15th May 18, 5:07 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Bentles
    Right, I've been looking at this all day, and whilst I consider myself to be relatively intelligent, the information needed is all over the place. It also seems that any time someone asks for help they get a fair bit of stick from forum members. I'm just going to have to pay this bloody thing aren't I

    problem points that I cant find a related POPLA appeal:

    1) not the registered keeper
    2) already admitted I was driving
    • Redx
    • By Redx 15th May 18, 5:25 PM
    • 19,593 Posts
    • 24,899 Thanks
    Redx
    there will be many , plus others where you remove anything about being the keeper and anything about POFA2012

    SO YOU REMOVE THOSE IRRELEVANT POINTS from any one of dozens of recent popla appeals, and you are left with appeal points such as

    NO LANDOWNER AUTHORITY
    POOR AND INADEQUATE SIGNAGE
    NOT THE SAME AS BEAVIS
    ANPR failures
    any BPA CoP failures

    etc

    ps:- post #6 in this recent thread https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5843092 tells you what to search for

    then find and adapt one by removing the irrelevant parts and renumbering
    Last edited by Redx; 15-05-2018 at 5:30 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Redx
    • By Redx 15th May 18, 5:36 PM
    • 19,593 Posts
    • 24,899 Thanks
    Redx
    in which case alter your draft and change the http to hxxp in each link and post the amended draft for critique

    none of this is difficult if you just think of ways to divert around each roadblock
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Bentles
    • By Bentles 15th May 18, 5:36 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    Bentles
    Vehicle Registration: xxxxxxxx
    POPLA Ref No.xxxxxxxx


    I wish to appeal the PCN relating to the above on the following grounds:

    The minimum grace period was not allowed by the operator
    The signs in this car park are not prominent, clear or legible
    No evidence of Landowner Authority

    and then a copy and paste of each point from the popla thread.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 15th May 18, 5:44 PM
    • 19,593 Posts
    • 24,899 Thanks
    Redx
    I believe they have allowed the minimum grace period, there are actually TWO grace periods, one before and one after (see clause #13 of the BPA CoP)

    the first one isnt specified but is generally considered to be between 5 and 10 minutes to park up , read the signs , pay if required and comply

    the second one is OVER 10 MINUTES TO DEPART

    so as the time period you quoted is over say 21 minutes then an overstay is indicated UNLESS the driver spent more time looking for spaces to park (like the ivor pecheque court case at Altrincham court for Fistral Beach a couple of years ago) - hint ; and was prevented from leaving by queuing traffic etc (hint) - definitely not from remaining onsite to charge any devices - that idea fails miserably

    SIGNAGE ETC - DEFINITELY GO TO TOWN ON SIGNAGE

    NO LANDOWNER AUTHORITY - DEFINITELY GO TO TOWN ON THIS

    where is the NOT THE SAME AS BEAVIS point ?

    where are any BPA CoP failures apart from clause #13 ?

    where is the ANPR issues paragraph ?

    and where is the DPA / ICO paragraph regarding data protection ?
    ICO ANPR surveillance camera CoP (search the forum for that one)
    like recently explained in this thread below
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5840250

    perhaps use this one and remove the hirer/keeper issues and POFA2012 paragraphs , then adapt the rest and add anything else, renumber the points and add them as a bullet point menu , then proof read it too

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760529
    Last edited by Redx; 15-05-2018 at 7:11 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

1,590Posts Today

9,268Users online

Martin's Twitter