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  • FIRST POST
    • 50Twuncle
    • By 50Twuncle 9th May 18, 10:30 AM
    • 8,382Posts
    • 1,983Thanks
    50Twuncle
    99 deposit on fuel.
    • #1
    • 9th May 18, 10:30 AM
    99 deposit on fuel. 9th May 18 at 10:30 AM
    Could someone please explain to me the thinking behind Asda (and others) plan to charge a "deposit" of 99 on "pay at the pump" petrol ?
    I mean - surely - when you pay by this method - you put your payment card in first - and if you don't have the funds in your account - you will not be able to take any fuel anyway ?
    So - if they intend to charge 99 - this is EXTORTION ?
    They claim that any money taken will be refunded quickly - but what if, for example - you only spend 10 on fuel and only have 30 in your account ?
Page 4
    • 2e0arr
    • By 2e0arr 12th May 18, 2:31 PM
    • 570 Posts
    • 326 Thanks
    2e0arr
    No, the FCA sets the limits within which the rules are up to the issuers.

    So if, for example, the card issuers decided to introduce an annual fee for debit cards to cover the administration cost of the many cards that are only ever used in cash machines, then that's up to them. The only interest the FCA would have is whether the level of fee is reasonable and whether it was explained properly to customers.
    Originally posted by Joe Horner

    Have a look at these principles ?
    Principle 3 Management and control...A firm must take reasonable care to organise and control its affairs responsibly and effectively, with adequate risk management system.

    Principle 6 Customers' interests...A firm must pay due regard to the interests of its customers and treat them fairly.


    Principle 7 Communications with clients...A firm must pay due regard to the information needs of its clients, and communicate information to them in a way which is clear, fair and not misleading.
    p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; }
    • Richard53
    • By Richard53 12th May 18, 4:36 PM
    • 2,648 Posts
    • 2,243 Thanks
    Richard53
    Well they need to buck up their ideas if they are pushing for a cashless society.
    Originally posted by LeeUK
    What a nightmare that will be.
    An hour alone spells freedom to the slave.
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 13th May 18, 1:24 AM
    • 4,393 Posts
    • 3,864 Thanks
    Joe Horner
    Have a look at these principles ?
    Principle 3 Management and control...A firm must take reasonable care to organise and control its affairs responsibly and effectively, with adequate risk management system.

    Principle 6 Customers' interests...A firm must pay due regard to the interests of its customers and treat them fairly.


    Principle 7 Communications with clients...A firm must pay due regard to the information needs of its clients, and communicate information to them in a way which is clear, fair and not misleading.
    p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; }
    Originally posted by 2e0arr
    And? As i said, they're free to make the rules within those principles.

    In the example I gave, setting an annual charge would be fair because they're a business providing a service and - here's the important bit - someone has to pay for it. If you only use your debit card in cash machines then they have the cost of providing the card and the auth systems that you're using but they're getting nothing in return. That's not how businesses work.

    In the example of the fuel pumps, it's fair to pre-auth to ensure you're not pumping fuel you can't afford. Their rules call for that pre-auth to be lifted promptly, if certain banks fail to do that then it's an issue with the banks, not with their rules.
    • 2e0arr
    • By 2e0arr 13th May 18, 10:24 AM
    • 570 Posts
    • 326 Thanks
    2e0arr
    And? As i said, they're free to make the rules within those principles.

    In the example I gave, setting an annual charge would be fair because they're a business providing a service and - here's the important bit - someone has to pay for it. If you only use your debit card in cash machines then they have the cost of providing the card and the auth systems that you're using but they're getting nothing in return. That's not how businesses work.

    In the example of the fuel pumps, it's fair to pre-auth to ensure you're not pumping fuel you can't afford. Their rules call for that pre-auth to be lifted promptly, if certain banks fail to do that then it's an issue with the banks, not with their rules.
    Originally posted by Joe Horner
    Their system should indicate that a pre authorisation is taking place. There should be a warning advising the consumer of the amount whether 0.09 or 9000.00.
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 13th May 18, 10:44 AM
    • 2,727 Posts
    • 3,478 Thanks
    unforeseen
    Their rules call for that pre-auth to be lifted promptly, if certain banks fail to do that then it's an issue with the banks, not with their rules.
    Originally posted by Joe Horner
    It's not an issue with the banks it's the retailer trying to use a system in the way it was never designed to be used.

    Pre-auth can take up to 7 days to be removed and that has always been the case. It was never designed to be used as a same day system

    One retailer will never get the banking system as a whole to change their system. However what they will achieve is a loss of customers on a once bitten twice shy reaction.

    The retailer needs to find a system that works WITHIN the current banking processes, not use a a process inappropriately.
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 13th May 18, 11:42 AM
    • 4,393 Posts
    • 3,864 Thanks
    Joe Horner
    It's not an issue with the banks it's the retailer trying to use a system in the way it was never designed to be used.

    Pre-auth can take up to 7 days to be removed and that has always been the case. It was never designed to be used as a same day system

    One retailer will never get the banking system as a whole to change their system. However what they will achieve is a loss of customers on a once bitte n twice shy reaction.

    The retailer needs to find a system that works WITHIN the current banking processes, not use a a process inappropriately.
    Originally posted by unforeseen
    No, the reyailer is following the industry's recommended practice for automated fuel transactions. This is Mastercard's version, Visa's are essentially the same:

    https://www.mastercard.com.au/content/dam/mccom/en-au/Merchants/documents/Automated_Fuel_Dispenser_Processing.pdf

    Note that, in Europe, merchants MUST submit a completion assoon as fueling is complete, but the banks only "should" release the pre auth as soon as possible.
    • 2e0arr
    • By 2e0arr 15th May 18, 5:26 AM
    • 570 Posts
    • 326 Thanks
    2e0arr
    And? As i said, they're free to make the rules within those principles.

    In the example I gave, setting an annual charge would be fair because they're a business providing a service and - here's the important bit - someone has to pay for it. If you only use your debit card in cash machines then they have the cost of providing the card and the auth systems that you're using but they're getting nothing in return. That's not how businesses work.

    In the example of the fuel pumps, it's fair to pre-auth to ensure you're not pumping fuel you can't afford. Their rules call for that pre-auth to be lifted promptly, if certain banks fail to do that then it's an issue with the banks, not with their rules.
    Originally posted by Joe Horner
    You are correct.
    i would have preferred a pre authorised amount of 100 or more so that a consequential loss section 75 claim could have been made on the day.
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