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  • FIRST POST
    • leitmotif
    • By leitmotif 12th Apr 18, 4:27 PM
    • 293Posts
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    leitmotif
    10-minute overstay in supermarket car park, genuine shopper
    • #1
    • 12th Apr 18, 4:27 PM
    10-minute overstay in supermarket car park, genuine shopper 12th Apr 18 at 4:27 PM
    Hi. My partner took her elderly mother to a supermarket on 5 April and parked in the supermarket's car park. The car park is intended for the exclusive use of the supermarket's customers. To ensure the parking is legitimate, the supermarket asks shoppers to scan their receipts at a machine in-store after they have made their purchases, and there is a 90-minute time limit.


    From the time of entering the car park to leaving the car park they stayed for 99 minutes. They were in that one supermarket the whole time (elderly mother has a damaged hip and moves at a snail's pace). As the registered owner of the vehicle, I've received a charge from the third party that acts on behalf of the supermarket.


    My partner says that there were no parking machines in the car park. I haven't asked her whether there was adequate signage specifying the time limit. She says that there were no clocks inside the supermarket and she didn't have her mobile phone with her, so they had no way of properly gauging the time. After completing their purchases, my partner scanned her receipt at the in-store machine to 'legitimise' the parking, and it said 'thank you'.


    I would like to know how to go about fighting this. The time limit is clearly intended to stop shoppers taking advantage of the system and doing some shopping at the supermarket and then going off to other shops in the area. In this case, as my partner paid by card, the supermarket's systems will presumably be able to show that they did indeed pay not long before leaving the car park (well, not long relative to my partner's mother's snail pace). A 9-minute overstay doesn't seem excessive in view of the circumstances. I suspect that the supermarket itself would be more sympathetic, but I've read about cases where they simply say 'nothing to do with us, so liaise with the third-party parking company'.


    I did read through the private parking tickets information on here, by the way. Most of that is geared towards unfair charges, etc.
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Apr 18, 4:31 PM
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    Redx
    • #2
    • 12th Apr 18, 4:31 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Apr 18, 4:31 PM
    there is plenty of info on here in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread, including the template appeal letter

    grace periods cover a 10 minute "overstay" , as you have to have time to park and time to leave , so have you read the relevant CoP about those periods ?

    which PPC is it ?

    also, complain to the retailer at head office and insist on a cancellation
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 12th Apr 18, 4:32 PM
    • 3,666 Posts
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    Johno100
    • #3
    • 12th Apr 18, 4:32 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Apr 18, 4:32 PM
    Who's the private parking company?
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 12th Apr 18, 4:36 PM
    • 9,010 Posts
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    The Deep
    • #4
    • 12th Apr 18, 4:36 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Apr 18, 4:36 PM
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • leitmotif
    • By leitmotif 12th Apr 18, 4:46 PM
    • 293 Posts
    • 154 Thanks
    leitmotif
    • #5
    • 12th Apr 18, 4:46 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Apr 18, 4:46 PM
    there is plenty of info on here in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread, including the template appeal letter
    Originally posted by Redx

    Apologies, I didn't see that. I'll read through it.

    grace periods cover a 10 minute "overstay" , as you have to have time to park and time to leave , so have you read the relevant CoP about those periods ?
    Originally posted by Redx

    What's a CoP? If there's a grace period of 10 minutes then my partner should be covered by that alone.



    also, complain to the retailer at head office and insist on a cancellation
    Originally posted by Redx


    That was my first thought. What I don't want to do, however, is end up having to pay double (even though it's my partner's fault, I'm the sole breadwinner) because it will take time to do that.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 12th Apr 18, 4:51 PM
    • 17,237 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    • #6
    • 12th Apr 18, 4:51 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Apr 18, 4:51 PM
    The critical issues here at this stage are the name of the parking company and the name of the retailer. We have strategies that work in these circumstances, depending on the combination of the two players.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Apr 18, 4:51 PM
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    Redx
    • #7
    • 12th Apr 18, 4:51 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Apr 18, 4:51 PM
    Code Of Practice = CoP

    there are 2 , the BPA one and the IPC one , depending which PPC this is and you still have not said who it is so far, despite being asked twice already

    a landowner cancellation is your best option , hence complaining to the retailer that employed these par@sites

    1) name the retailer

    2)name the PPC

    stop being so secretive, naming these people will help us to help you

    our aim is that you pay NOTHING AT ALL, doesnt get any cheaper than that
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • leitmotif
    • By leitmotif 12th Apr 18, 5:01 PM
    • 293 Posts
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    leitmotif
    • #8
    • 12th Apr 18, 5:01 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Apr 18, 5:01 PM
    Athena ANPR Ltd, who denote themselves as 'The Creditor' (I thought this was a charge, not a debt?) and Lidl.
    • leitmotif
    • By leitmotif 12th Apr 18, 5:11 PM
    • 293 Posts
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    leitmotif
    • #9
    • 12th Apr 18, 5:11 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Apr 18, 5:11 PM
    They seem to be signed up to the IPC, which means the following from the IPC's code of practice is applicable:


    15.2 Drivers must be allowed a minimum period of 10 minutes to leave a site after a pre-paid or permitted period of parking has expired.
    15.3 The reference to 10 minutes in 15.2 above shall not apply where the period of pre-paid or permitted parking does not exceed 1 hour providing that the signage on the site makes it clear to the motorist, in a prominent font, that no grace period applies on that land.

    Ergo they can't do anything.
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 12th Apr 18, 5:30 PM
    • 4,084 Posts
    • 5,785 Thanks
    Half_way
    Extra time required and refused for someone with a protected characteristic ( Equality act) as well as the 10 minute grace period.

    Before sending anything to anyone ( ie retailer complaint) post it here first
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • leitmotif
    • By leitmotif 12th Apr 18, 5:40 PM
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    • 154 Thanks
    leitmotif
    Sure, will do. Do I even need to complain to the supermarket? Surely I can just reply to Athena ANPR and point out that their parking charge notice goes against the code of practice they've signed up to?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 12th Apr 18, 5:46 PM
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    Umkomaas
    Surely I can just reply to Athena ANPR and point out that their parking charge notice goes against the code of practice they've signed up to?
    Total waste of time, they will not cancel. There's no profit in upheld appeals.

    You write to the Lidl MD Christian Haertnagel and complain. Ask that he cancels the ticket for a genuine customer with an elderly mother who required longer than a much younger person to get around a very busy store.

    Do a forum search on 'Christian Haertnagel' (note spelling) and look for a complaint used by someone else and adapt to your circumstances. The email address is a 'donotreply@' one, which has previously worked.

    Phrase your complaint well and your charge will be cancelled.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • leitmotif
    • By leitmotif 12th Apr 18, 5:52 PM
    • 293 Posts
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    leitmotif
    Surely Athena wouldn't take a case to court that is clearly in breach of the code of practice they've signed up to, and where the recipient of the penalty notice has pointed this out?


    And one would hope the ICP would take a dim view of that if they did proceed.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Apr 18, 5:55 PM
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    Redx
    I am afraid you are using the viewpoint of the very naive whereas the regulars here have seen what happens over the last 6 years or more

    if you watch the parliamentary debate on this from 02 feb 2018 you would know that the trade bodies are useless and that EVERY MP who spoke slagged them all off , including the debt collectors as well as the sc@mming parking companies

    you can either take our free advice , or not , its your choice, but personally I would do what Umkomaas clearly says above

    the main law in play here is the EA2010 , never mind any others regarding contractual invoices
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 12th Apr 18, 5:58 PM
    • 17,237 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    No one is talking about 'court', but we are talking about up to 6 years of uncertainty for you should you not get this killed off now. We have no record of Athena upholding any direct appeal to them.

    And one would hope the ICP would take a dim view of that if they did proceed.
    Are you serious? The IPC is a member organisation with the single aim of protecting its members and their profits. The CoP is a facade, window dressing, which they need to have in place to give them an air of legitimacy and (importantly) allow their members access to the DVLA database for keeper details.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 12th Apr 18, 6:20 PM
    • 3,666 Posts
    • 4,243 Thanks
    Johno100
    Surely Athena wouldn't take a case to court that is clearly in breach of the code of practice they've signed up to, and where the recipient of the penalty notice has pointed this out?

    And one would hope the ICP would take a dim view of that if they did proceed.
    Originally posted by leitmotif
    Plus in addition to what Umkomaas said, those behind the IPC have a lucrative sideline - they run a firm of solicitors who specialise in acting for private parking companies taking individuals such as yourself to court. I think you can see why the deck of cards is stacked against you with the IPC.
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 12th Apr 18, 6:27 PM
    • 10,397 Posts
    • 9,637 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    Appeal to the PPC saying that your over stay was within the grace period mandated by their trade association Code of Practice. Under these circumstances, they must cancel.

    I disagree about not appealing to the IAS. With a clear breach of the IPC Code of Practice, they would have little choice but to cancel, as long as the appeal was a single point appeal.

    And the outcome would be great information to the regulars here. If they turned it down, it's more evidence for the current parliamentary discussions going on and more weight to the IPC/IAS set up not getting the gig if only one appeal body is approved.
    • leitmotif
    • By leitmotif 12th Apr 18, 9:25 PM
    • 293 Posts
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    leitmotif
    Now I'm confused. Two different sets of advice. What's the IAS? It hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Apr 18, 9:32 PM
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    Redx
    its the IPC version of popla, and its all spelt out in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread, which I hope you have read because you said you would several hours ago

    BPA use POPLA

    IPC use IAS
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • leitmotif
    • By leitmotif 13th Apr 18, 12:10 AM
    • 293 Posts
    • 154 Thanks
    leitmotif
    Haven't had time yet. I've had kids to put to bed and work to finish. Will take a look tomorrow.
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