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    • DVLA rebellion
    • By DVLA rebellion 8th Mar 18, 2:01 PM
    • 1Posts
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    DVLA rebellion
    Why should you SORN a car on private land
    • #1
    • 8th Mar 18, 2:01 PM
    Why should you SORN a car on private land 8th Mar 18 at 2:01 PM
    Hi All.
    My other car was parked in my garage for a few months, I was finding time to sort out the electrical fault, it couldnít be used on the road as it wouldnít start.
    The road tax run out, and I didnít have the original letter sent to SORN or tax the car. I called DVLA and explained, their reply was weíll issue you another letter which they did with the long number on it, when this arrived it was the start of the next month so I SORN my car. I was then sent a letter from DVLA saying as the car was SORN I was being fined £80 for not having the car SORN on the previous month. I called them and explained but the person wasnít interested in what I was telling him. I have had a license for 41 years a Iím a little confused why you actually have to tell DVLA itís off road. When did it become law to SORN your car when your car is on private land or is this own statement making them important.
    I would appreciate your help as Iím being pestered by a debt collection agency?
Page 1
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 8th Mar 18, 2:07 PM
    • 2,970 Posts
    • 2,938 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #2
    • 8th Mar 18, 2:07 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Mar 18, 2:07 PM
    Hi All.
    My other car was parked in my garage for a few months, I was finding time to sort out the electrical fault, it couldnít be used on the road as it wouldnít start.
    The road tax run out, and I didnít have the original letter sent to SORN or tax the car. I called DVLA and explained, their reply was weíll issue you another letter which they did with the long number on it, when this arrived it was the start of the next month so I SORN my car. I was then sent a letter from DVLA saying as the car was SORN I was being fined £80 for not having the car SORN on the previous month. I called them and explained but the person wasnít interested in what I was telling him. I have had a license for 41 years a Iím a little confused why you actually have to tell DVLA itís off road. When did it become law to SORN your car when your car is on private land or is this own statement making them important.
    I would appreciate your help as Iím being pestered by a debt collection agency?
    Originally posted by DVLA rebellion


    The law is very simple:


    Pay your tax or sorn it.


    You did neither, what do you expect?
    • BeenThroughItAll
    • By BeenThroughItAll 8th Mar 18, 2:13 PM
    • 4,680 Posts
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    BeenThroughItAll
    • #3
    • 8th Mar 18, 2:13 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Mar 18, 2:13 PM
    When did it become law to SORN your car when your car is on private land or is this own statement making them important?
    Originally posted by DVLA rebellion


    Erm, 1998. Hardly a new law.
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 8th Mar 18, 2:13 PM
    • 13,915 Posts
    • 18,291 Thanks
    Gloomendoom
    • #4
    • 8th Mar 18, 2:13 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Mar 18, 2:13 PM
    When did it become law to SORN your car when your car is on private land
    Originally posted by DVLA rebellion
    About 20 years ago...

    The Road Vehicles (Statutory Off-Road Notification) Regulations 1997
    ďNever argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.Ē - Mark Twain
    • onomatopoeia99
    • By onomatopoeia99 8th Mar 18, 2:40 PM
    • 4,175 Posts
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    onomatopoeia99
    • #5
    • 8th Mar 18, 2:40 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Mar 18, 2:40 PM
    The reason you must declare SORN is the law, as others have stated. The Road Vehicles (Statutory Off-Road Notification) Regulations 1997 if you fancy some bedtime reading

    The reason the law was changed is more difficult. Apparently the Labour government didn't trust us (which will come as a huge surprise to no-one), so thought if we let the tax run out that meant we were using the vehicle untaxed. So they changed it to force us to declare the vehicle was off road, as if that somehow made a difference to people using untaxed vehicles.

    It's a nonsense, it's been a nonsense for twenty years, and now we have the continuous insurance enforcement nonsense as well, introduced under the coalition, which means if a vehicle is taxed it must be insured all the time, not just on the date the tax starts.

    These are both administrative offences, as keeping an untaxed or uninsured vehicle off road without declaring SORN does not cause harm or potential harm to anyone, and using an untaxed or uninsured vehicle is an offence in its own right without the existence of SORN..
    INTP, nerd, libertarian and scifi geek.
    Home is where my books are.
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 8th Mar 18, 2:40 PM
    • 3,723 Posts
    • 4,321 Thanks
    Johno100
    • #6
    • 8th Mar 18, 2:40 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Mar 18, 2:40 PM
    The road tax run out, and I didnít have the original letter sent to SORN or tax the car. I called DVLA and explained, their reply was weíll issue you another letter which they did with the long number on it,
    Originally posted by DVLA rebellion
    I'm highly surprised they didn't tell you you could SORN the vehicle with the 11-digit number on your V5c (AKA Log Book), or had you misplaced that as well?
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 8th Mar 18, 4:38 PM
    • 17,356 Posts
    • 15,700 Thanks
    AdrianC
    • #7
    • 8th Mar 18, 4:38 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Mar 18, 4:38 PM
    I have had a license for 41 years a Iím a little confused why you actually have to tell DVLA itís off road.
    Originally posted by DVLA rebellion
    Because it isn't currently taxed.

    When did it become law to SORN your car when your car is on private land
    1998...

    You've also not been able to have a taxed but uninsured car since 2011.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 8th Mar 18, 5:35 PM
    • 12,286 Posts
    • 9,615 Thanks
    unholyangel
    • #8
    • 8th Mar 18, 5:35 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Mar 18, 5:35 PM
    It's a nonsense, it's been a nonsense for twenty years, and now we have the continuous insurance enforcement nonsense as well, introduced under the coalition, which means if a vehicle is taxed it must be insured all the time, not just on the date the tax starts.
    Originally posted by onomatopoeia99
    I appreciate its a subtle difference but imo saying "if a vehicle is taxed, it must be insured" is a bit misleading.

    Technically the legislation makes both blanket offences (no VED & no insurance) but then creates an exception if the vehicle is not kept or used on the public road and they've declared SORN.

    So its that a non SORN vehicle requires insurance, not just taxed vehicles.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 8th Mar 18, 5:49 PM
    • 17,356 Posts
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    AdrianC
    • #9
    • 8th Mar 18, 5:49 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Mar 18, 5:49 PM
    So its that a non SORN vehicle requires insurance, not just taxed vehicles.
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    But since any vehicle that isn't taxed must legally be SORNed, there's no functional difference.

    Well, I s'pose there is the very tiny handful of vehicles that haven't changed keeper or been taxed since 1998...
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 8th Mar 18, 6:01 PM
    • 12,286 Posts
    • 9,615 Thanks
    unholyangel
    But since any vehicle that isn't taxed must legally be SORNed, there's no functional difference.

    Well, I s'pose there is the very tiny handful of vehicles that haven't changed keeper or been taxed since 1998...
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    As I said, I do appreciate its a subtle difference, but it is a difference imo.

    Plus there are plenty of people who think having a vehicle that requires a nil licence means they don't need to tax their car. I wouldn't put it past them to misunderstand insurance rules also!
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • prowla
    • By prowla 8th Mar 18, 6:33 PM
    • 9,741 Posts
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    prowla
    Because it's a Statutory Off-Road Notification; that's what it is, you're telling them that it's off the road.
    • LeeUK
    • By LeeUK 8th Mar 18, 6:49 PM
    • 5,936 Posts
    • 2,708 Thanks
    LeeUK
    They send out £80 fines but do you really need to pay it? What will happen, they send a few debt collectors until they get board and move on.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 8th Mar 18, 6:50 PM
    • 17,356 Posts
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    AdrianC
    They send out £80 fines but do you really need to pay it? What will happen, they send a few debt collectors until they get board and move on.
    Originally posted by LeeUK
    This post brought to you by the letters C, C, and J.
    • LeeUK
    • By LeeUK 8th Mar 18, 6:57 PM
    • 5,936 Posts
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    LeeUK
    This post brought to you by the letters C, C, and J.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    But do you not just claim that you sent it in the post and that Royal Maily lost it?

    Either way I've never had that problem as I always tax or SORN when required without fail.
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 8th Mar 18, 7:30 PM
    • 13,915 Posts
    • 18,291 Thanks
    Gloomendoom
    But since any vehicle that isn't taxed must legally be SORNed, there's no functional difference.

    Well, I s'pose there is the very tiny handful of vehicles that haven't changed keeper or been taxed since 1998...
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    There is. I have three. Registered, untaxed, uninsured and not SORNed
    ďNever argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.Ē - Mark Twain
    • Tarambor
    • By Tarambor 9th Mar 18, 3:23 PM
    • 2,826 Posts
    • 2,041 Thanks
    Tarambor
    The reason the law was changed is more difficult. Apparently the Labour government didn't trust us (which will come as a huge surprise to no-one), so thought if we let the tax run out that meant we were using the vehicle untaxed. So they changed it to force us to declare the vehicle was off road, as if that somehow made a difference to people using untaxed vehicles.
    Originally posted by onomatopoeia99
    Actually it was to address the practice of people buying cars with tax on and driving them around without insurance, something that was popular with Eastern European migrants and certain lowlife. At the time it came into force the Police with ANPR could check a car was taxed but they couldn't check it was insured, the Motor Insurance Database was only created in 2009 and access to it via ANPR checks weren't available for a few years after so whilst an officer could find out if they radio'd in when they'd stopped you, a random ANPR check as you were being followed wouldn't show if you were uninsured so the likelihood of being caught without insurance in a taxed car was quite low.

    It was common knowledge around the local auction circuit that if you wanted to get daft money for your banger you put it through with several months road tax on it instead of cashing it in.
    Last edited by Tarambor; 09-03-2018 at 3:29 PM.
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 9th Mar 18, 5:04 PM
    • 3,723 Posts
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    Johno100
    Actually it was to address the practice of people buying cars with tax on and driving them around without insurance, something that was popular with Eastern European migrants and certain lowlife.
    Originally posted by Tarambor
    Given that none of the Eastern European countries had joined the EU, so facilitating free movement, when the SORN legislation was enacted I somehow doubt that was the reason.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 10th Mar 18, 9:18 AM
    • 17,356 Posts
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    AdrianC
    Given that none of the Eastern European countries had joined the EU, so facilitating free movement, when the SORN legislation was enacted I somehow doubt that was the reason.
    Originally posted by Johno100
    Hush with your facts and reality...

    It was actually everything to do with the then-popular hobby of skipping a month. Your tax disc expires at the end of March, you tax it from May...
    • facade
    • By facade 10th Mar 18, 9:42 AM
    • 3,142 Posts
    • 1,653 Thanks
    facade
    If you declare your garden an independent state, then EU/UK law wouldn't apply, and you wouldn't need to SORN, insure or tax your car whilst in your own state.

    I don't think you would need to tax it whilst "visiting" the UK either.

    Problem solved!
    I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....

    (except air quality and Medical Science )
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 10th Mar 18, 9:51 AM
    • 17,356 Posts
    • 15,700 Thanks
    AdrianC
    The road tax run out, and I didnít have the original letter sent to SORN or tax the car. I called DVLA and explained, their reply was weíll issue you another letter which they did with the long number on it
    Originally posted by DVLA rebellion
    I've just noticed this bit in the original post, which nobody's actually addressed.

    It is, of course, utter codswallop. DVLA would actually have said "Just use the doc ref on the V5C, then."
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