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  • FIRST POST
    • KeepTheFaith
    • By KeepTheFaith 3rd Mar 18, 9:51 PM
    • 4Posts
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    KeepTheFaith
    Transitional Protection, self employed UC
    • #1
    • 3rd Mar 18, 9:51 PM
    Transitional Protection, self employed UC 3rd Mar 18 at 9:51 PM
    So just worrying ahead of time. I am currently self employed for over a decade receiving working tax credits, including the 'lower' disability element (forget what its called) and housing benefit. I am aware that once I get naturally migrated over to Universal Credit, as a single person with no children, I am set to loose all benefits due to the operation of the miniumum income floor and there not being an equivalent disability element in UC.

    I have found out that the natural migration to UC, assuming I don't go having some dreaded change of circumstances, will be between July 2019 and March 2022. I won't be able to live on what I earn from self employment as profit was only £4300 last year. Also my lovely landlord who bought my flat 2 years ago cheap at the auction, is trying a massive rent hike doubling my rent to try and get rid of me so he can make around £40 to £50K if he gets vacant possession. So could be getting rent hike evicted from my home of 22 years also. (He can't do a s21 no fault eviction on me so the huge rent hike is his new plan, will be fighting it at the rent assessment committee but may not work).

    But to get to the point. Can anyone clarify whether Transitional Protection can help guard the self employed against the effects of the minimum income floor? I am guessing the answer is not good but can't find any definitive answer anywhere.

    Thanks in advance!
Page 1
    • venison
    • By venison 3rd Mar 18, 10:32 PM
    • 2,171 Posts
    • 2,318 Thanks
    venison
    • #2
    • 3rd Mar 18, 10:32 PM
    • #2
    • 3rd Mar 18, 10:32 PM
    It will be "managed migration" that will come with transitional protection, as you say probably between 2019 ish and 2022 ish.
    Ex Board Guide
    • KeepTheFaith
    • By KeepTheFaith 3rd Mar 18, 10:37 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    KeepTheFaith
    • #3
    • 3rd Mar 18, 10:37 PM
    • #3
    • 3rd Mar 18, 10:37 PM
    Thanks but will the transitional protection save me from the operation of the minimum income floor? Because once MIF is applied, my award of UC would be way below zero.
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 3rd Mar 18, 11:19 PM
    • 11,577 Posts
    • 13,478 Thanks
    pmlindyloo
    • #4
    • 3rd Mar 18, 11:19 PM
    • #4
    • 3rd Mar 18, 11:19 PM
    Thanks but will the transitional protection save me from the operation of the minimum income floor? Because once MIF is applied, my award of UC would be way below zero.
    Originally posted by KeepTheFaith
    To be absolutely honest no on knows exactly how managed migration is going to work as little information has been given.

    According to what I have read there will be transitional protection but this will end if certain changes take place. One of these is going below the minimum floor level for 3 months. How this will work for the unemployed no one knows

    https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Universal-Credit-transitional-protection/How-long-will-I-get-Universal-Credit-transitional#guide-content

    As you have the disability element of working tax credits does this mean that you are claiming DLA/PIP or was it awarded for another reason? If you have a disability that makes it difficult for you to work then it may be that your minimum floor level would be based on the number of hours that you were able to work.

    Really I am guessing here. Sorry.

    Is your self employment likely to make more money in the future? Could you do any other work as an employee?
    • WillowCat
    • By WillowCat 3rd Mar 18, 11:34 PM
    • 808 Posts
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    WillowCat
    • #5
    • 3rd Mar 18, 11:34 PM
    • #5
    • 3rd Mar 18, 11:34 PM
    As above, the rules for transitional protection have not been announced so it's impossible to comment.

    However the rules for universal credit allow for a 'work capability assessment' to be carried out. This is automatically allowed if you claim PIP/DLA, and can also be carried out if you earn under the administrative earnings threshold (£338 per month for a single person). This WCA is similar to the one for ESA, and a little bit different to the PIP/DLA one, but on the same lines.

    If, following the WCA you are awarded Limited Capability for Work or Work Related Activity (LCWRA - the equivalent of 'support' group in ESA) then you will be awarded extra money in Universal Credit (£318.76 per month). If you are awarded Limited Capability for Work then you will not get extra money.

    However in both cases you will be exempt from the minimum income floor, and so can carry out your self employment as and when you are physically or mentally able to. There are no minimum or maximum hours and no minimum or maximum earnings amounts. Obviously you will need to report your earnings, and they will reduce the amount of UC you get (though with LCWRA or LCW you get an earnings allowance so the first £192 per month you are earning won't be taken into account).
    • KeepTheFaith
    • By KeepTheFaith 4th Mar 18, 1:14 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    KeepTheFaith
    • #6
    • 4th Mar 18, 1:14 PM
    • #6
    • 4th Mar 18, 1:14 PM
    Thanks for all your help. Sorry I got the terminology wrong way around. I meant when I am managed migrated onto UC.

    Don't receive any DLA or PIP.

    Its the Disabled Worker Element of WTC that I currently receive and so need to work 16 plus hours pw currently to get it. It comes under having 'a disability that puts you at a disadvantage in getting a job'. This is mainly the reason I am self employed, as I find it difficult to fit into the traditional workplace without them making adjustments, which they would often argue are not reasonable adjustments for me to do the job (under Equality Act rules). Hence I am also limited in what I can do in my self employment, but I make my own adjustments to hours etc, so that it is manageable for me. But this means I can't compete on an equal footing with my competitors. I have to turn down work I can't do. Also my business has been affected as the fight with the Landlord, has had a detrimental effect on my health, which in turn has affected my business. Plus the sector has become considerably more competitive than when I started 10 years ago.

    I have General Anxiety Disorder, Social Anxiety, a sleep disorder, IBS and few other things going on.

    I had a look at the work capability assessment but I am not sure I tick their boxes. If I fit under that category then I guess the problem is solved but the rules are different than the 'disadvantage in getting a job' test. I guess I need someone to advise me whether I am likely to pass a limited capability for work test.

    If not, even if MIF is applied at 16 hours, I think I will be screwed and have to give up my business.
    • huckster
    • By huckster 4th Mar 18, 1:52 PM
    • 3,207 Posts
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    huckster
    • #7
    • 4th Mar 18, 1:52 PM
    • #7
    • 4th Mar 18, 1:52 PM
    Can I suggest you write to your local MP and ask them to raise this with DWP. Perhaps DWP will provide a letter explaining how they can help you maintain self employment taking into account your disability requirements.

    If they provide a letter, then when you are migrated onto UC, if there are any problems, then such a letter might prove useful.
    The comments I post are personal opinion. Always refer to official information sources before relying on internet forums. If you have a problem with any organisation, enter into their official complaints process at the earliest opportunity, as sometimes complaints have to be started within a certain time frame.
    • BorisThomson
    • By BorisThomson 4th Mar 18, 2:32 PM
    • 1,586 Posts
    • 3,426 Thanks
    BorisThomson
    • #8
    • 4th Mar 18, 2:32 PM
    • #8
    • 4th Mar 18, 2:32 PM
    There is a bigger issue here, your income is not sufficient to meet the minimum income floor for WTC. Your claim may well be queried before you even get to UC.
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 4th Mar 18, 4:30 PM
    • 11,577 Posts
    • 13,478 Thanks
    pmlindyloo
    • #9
    • 4th Mar 18, 4:30 PM
    • #9
    • 4th Mar 18, 4:30 PM
    Thanks for all your help. Sorry I got the terminology wrong way around. I meant when I am managed migrated onto UC.

    Don't receive any DLA or PIP.

    Its the Disabled Worker Element of WTC that I currently receive and so need to work 16 plus hours pw currently to get it. It comes under having 'a disability that puts you at a disadvantage in getting a job'. This is mainly the reason I am self employed, as I find it difficult to fit into the traditional workplace without them making adjustments, which they would often argue are not reasonable adjustments for me to do the job (under Equality Act rules). Hence I am also limited in what I can do in my self employment, but I make my own adjustments to hours etc, so that it is manageable for me. But this means I can't compete on an equal footing with my competitors. I have to turn down work I can't do. Also my business has been affected as the fight with the Landlord, has had a detrimental effect on my health, which in turn has affected my business. Plus the sector has become considerably more competitive than when I started 10 years ago.

    I have General Anxiety Disorder, Social Anxiety, a sleep disorder, IBS and few other things going on.

    I had a look at the work capability assessment but I am not sure I tick their boxes. If I fit under that category then I guess the problem is solved but the rules are different than the 'disadvantage in getting a job' test. I guess I need someone to advise me whether I am likely to pass a limited capability for work test.

    If not, even if MIF is applied at 16 hours, I think I will be screwed and have to give up my business.
    Originally posted by KeepTheFaith
    To claim the disability element of WTC you also would have had to meet another test. Read this:

    https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/qualifying-benefit-test

    I suggest that you get some help from a welfare advisor or benefits specialist at CAB to see if you are eligible for ESA and/or PIP.

    If you were then you could do permitted work as well as getting ESA as you are under the earnings limit but you would have to drop your hours to 15 and stop claiming working tax credits. How much do you get in WTC per week. ESA would be £73.10 per week so it is possible that you would be better off?

    When you transferred to UC then you would already have a claim for ESA which would continue and which could potentially mean that you would not come under the minimum floor level and you could continue to do your self employment work.

    However, I do not know whether Permitted Work is protected under the transitional arrangements. Anyone?

    Also there is no permitted work under UC so any earnings would affect your UC.

    CAB should be able to do a better off calculation for you.
    • KeepTheFaith
    • By KeepTheFaith 4th Mar 18, 9:51 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    KeepTheFaith
    There is a bigger issue here, your income is not sufficient to meet the minimum income floor for WTC. Your claim may well be queried before you even get to UC.
    Originally posted by BorisThomson
    I already thought about that when my income was lower from the last tax year. As I understand it I would have to prove the self employment is 'commercial, profitable, regular and organised’ and think I stand a good chance of being able to prove that, especially since my income has been over the 16 x min wage the previous 10 years. But yes it is of concern if my health continues to deteriorate with the pressures with the Landlord as that is going to tribunal and he and his Solicitor have been pretty aggressive so far and if he gets his way in the end it's likely to tip me over the edge if I was to lose my home. At least that's what I worry about constantly. (Its not the original Landlord, this is a speculator who bought my flat at auction and got it cheap as I am a sitting tenant, with sole intention of getting rid of me).

    To claim the disability element of WTC you also would have had to meet another test.
    Originally posted by pmlindyloo
    Yes I was on Incapacity Benefit before becoming self employed. Thereafter receiving disability elements of HB and CT. So think its covered by condition G and B if I understand it correctly. They looked into all this a few years back and I past all the criteria and nothing changed since then so hopefully that's all ok!
    I suggest that you get some help from a welfare advisor or benefits specialist at CAB to see if you are eligible for ESA and/or PIP.

    If you were then you could do permitted work as well as getting ESA as you are under the earnings limit but you would have to drop your hours to 15 and stop claiming working tax credits. How much do you get in WTC per week. ESA would be £73.10 per week so it is possible that you would be better off
    Originally posted by pmlindyloo
    The WTC is about £94 pw with the disabled worker element so would be worse off under ESA.

    When you transferred to UC then you would already have a claim for ESA which would continue and which could potentially mean that you would not come under the minimum floor level and you could continue to do your self employment work.
    Originally posted by pmlindyloo
    My area has just become a full digital service area so I can't claim ESA so too late for that plan unfortunately. So if I was to try and claim ESA will be told to claim UC instead, so back to my first problem then.

    The other thing is that as I was claiming HB pre the change over to LHA (think pre April 2008?) then if nasty Landlord wins the case the LHA has no chance of covering the increased rent. Whereas on the old HB system I might get a bit closer to it. So if go claim UC now or migrated later the housing costs element will be based on LHA I am assuming?
    If I end up threatened with eviction if the Landlord gets the momentous rent hike, then in theory could I move to an area that's not a full service area and try claim ESA? Or would I have to claim UC anyhow? My head hurts!
    • WoodyMax
    • By WoodyMax 16th Mar 18, 10:12 PM
    • 48 Posts
    • 38 Thanks
    WoodyMax
    So just worrying ahead of time. I am currently self employed for over a decade receiving working tax credits, including the 'lower' disability element (forget what its called) and housing benefit. I am aware that once I get naturally migrated over to Universal Credit, as a single person with no children, I am set to loose all benefits due to the operation of the miniumum income floor and there not being an equivalent disability element in UC.

    I have found out that the natural migration to UC, assuming I don't go having some dreaded change of circumstances, will be between July 2019 and March 2022. I won't be able to live on what I earn from self employment as profit was only £4300 last year. Also my lovely landlord who bought my flat 2 years ago cheap at the auction, is trying a massive rent hike doubling my rent to try and get rid of me so he can make around £40 to £50K if he gets vacant possession. So could be getting rent hike evicted from my home of 22 years also. (He can't do a s21 no fault eviction on me so the huge rent hike is his new plan, will be fighting it at the rent assessment committee but may not work).

    But to get to the point. Can anyone clarify whether Transitional Protection can help guard the self employed against the effects of the minimum income floor? I am guessing the answer is not good but can't find any definitive answer anywhere.

    Thanks in advance!
    Originally posted by KeepTheFaith
    Hi Keep The Faith,
    I don't know much about it but as you have been a tenant for 22 years I would definitely check whether the landlord can do this to you.

    Assured tenancies
    Tenancies starting between 15 January 1989 and 27 February 1997 may be assured. You’ll have increased protection from eviction with this type of agreement.

    Speak to Shelter about this and find out your rights.

    Good luck

    Woody
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