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    • atrixblue.-MFR-.
    • By atrixblue.-MFR-. 11th Feb 18, 3:31 PM
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    atrixblue.-MFR-.
    School refusing
    • #1
    • 11th Feb 18, 3:31 PM
    School refusing 11th Feb 18 at 3:31 PM
    As the title says.


    Following on from the Uniform saga, I thought this would need its dedicated thread.


    Daughter is ADHD-ASD.


    She's started to actively refuse to attend school again, in her eyes school are reneging on arrangements put in place again, she has lost all trust in them and all respect for them.


    Cant say I blame her, its a common theme, Such as this for E.G


    Daughter hasn't attended Welsh since primary yr 2 she would wonder off in class and not pay attention to it because she never understood Welsh or why she needs it its the same with French although teacher allows her to get on with her homework in class rather than trying to pressure her to engage especially after last time when it almost came to her ripping the whole classroom apart teacher managed to get a male teacher to restrain AND remove her.



    School said she did not need to attend welsh or French no longer they would Dis-apply her so long as I got medical evidence so when they had a estyn inspection they could have a nice neat little reason to putting this in place.

    I asked GP, GP said they cannot provide this under the guidelines from the local health board its not permissible for them to get involved in this aspect. Same for her psychiatrist consultant, Consultant stated its for ED psych to assess this in agreement with school based on her current medical diagnosis and assessments and risk assessment.



    I reported back with this to the deputy head, who stated that ED Psych slots were thin on the ground but her would put daughters name forward for assessment and to leave it with him (I put the situation back in his court so to speak).



    I wrote to the school to confirm all the above and get her IEP One page profile and risk assessments and the school now states that I was to write to head of school and LEA with medical evidence to disapply daughter from welsh and that these conversations didn't take place putting it back to me to now sort through. So yes I understand school say one thing and then renege on it when it suits them, they move the goal posts quite often and say things quite differently to what was said in the meetings afterwards.


    After the school uniform saga we made an agreement with school that on the basis of her wearing school colours no jegging no leggings or jeans she could wear zip pockets trousers. I asked school to E-mail alert all her teachers this was agreed so there was no questioning her when she was in class about it and sending her to isolation. He says he did this, but the last class of the day teacher put her in isolation and said that she didn't have no E-mail Daughter asked her to double check teacher refused to do so. Daughter went to over to deputy head to explain this and then he said it was for ONE DAY ONLY, this was not what was agreed. Then Daughter walked into a pole in school on way out and hit two teeth loose, Unfortunately daughters a violent person when hurt, and best course is to let her ride it out and calm down so daughter walked into the tutors room where it was empty put head in hands and screamed the place down in frustration and pain, another teacher came in and gave her a stern talking to about her screaming, teacher told her it was pathetic for her age, and to get out of the tutors room and stand against the heads corridor for yet another talking to!. Daughter had enough by this point and just walked out of school instead.


    Now were back to square 1. School refusing. and I'm back to pleading and begging on hands and knees with LEA to provide home tutoring on the phone or in their offices in the morning. Yay .


    Whilst this is more of a rant, I would appreciate some advise on what else I can do! have I missed a step here somewhere.


    Someone pass me the gin!!!
    Last edited by atrixblue.-MFR-.; 11-02-2018 at 3:35 PM.
    "We only have one world, But we live in different worlds"- Mark Knopfler Brothers in arms, Miss you gramps.
Page 1
    • Spendless
    • By Spendless 11th Feb 18, 5:58 PM
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    Spendless
    • #2
    • 11th Feb 18, 5:58 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Feb 18, 5:58 PM
    I'm really sorry to hear and afraid I have no words of advice for you.

    We are going through similar things at my youngest's school, where something trivial that should be sorted quickly can escalate out of all control.
    • atrixblue.-MFR-.
    • By atrixblue.-MFR-. 11th Feb 18, 8:46 PM
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    atrixblue.-MFR-.
    • #3
    • 11th Feb 18, 8:46 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Feb 18, 8:46 PM
    I'm really sorry to hear and afraid I have no words of advice for you.

    We are going through similar things at my youngest's school, where something trivial that should be sorted quickly can escalate out of all control.
    Originally posted by Spendless
    yes ive been there, The words of advice I could offer you here is that in the mind of my daughter it was/is a huge deal, So to counter this, I would get headmaster to sit and explain that it isn't bad at all, and praise where it was due. If it came form either me or mum, we weren't believed and it went worse way worse.
    "We only have one world, But we live in different worlds"- Mark Knopfler Brothers in arms, Miss you gramps.
    • Kim_13
    • By Kim_13 11th Feb 18, 8:57 PM
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    Kim_13
    • #4
    • 11th Feb 18, 8:57 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Feb 18, 8:57 PM
    If they agree to anything else, I would ask for it in writing. You can then give it to your daughter to have it at hand in case she is questioned as to why she is not doing/wearing xyz.
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    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 11th Feb 18, 10:28 PM
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    silvercar
    • #5
    • 11th Feb 18, 10:28 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Feb 18, 10:28 PM
    Daughter hasn't attended Welsh since primary yr 2 she would wonder off in class and not pay attention to it because she never understood Welsh or why she needs it its the same with French
    Where has she picked up that she doesn't need Welsh (or French). It sounds to me that she has picked up this message outside school, possibly at home , and is now acting on it.
    • Diamandis
    • By Diamandis 12th Feb 18, 2:52 AM
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    Diamandis
    • #6
    • 12th Feb 18, 2:52 AM
    • #6
    • 12th Feb 18, 2:52 AM
    Where has she picked up that she doesn't need Welsh (or French). It sounds to me that she has picked up this message outside school, possibly at home , and is now acting on it.
    Originally posted by silvercar

    This is the bit that confused me too. You learn loads of stuff at school that isn't useful in the rea world but you still need to go to the classes.
    • deannatrois
    • By deannatrois 12th Feb 18, 3:47 AM
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    deannatrois
    • #7
    • 12th Feb 18, 3:47 AM
    • #7
    • 12th Feb 18, 3:47 AM
    I am SO sorry this has happened. Yep with two children with ASD.., been there too - a little situation escalates out of control and sometimes against hard one agreements with schools as to how something could be dealt with.

    I have experienced 6 schools. Only 1 was half way ASD friendly, 1 is doing all it can to make school accessible to my youngest boy. The rest of them were nightmares.

    OK I hope you have been able to congratulate your daughter on being so resourcesful, inspite of being so stressed. No one understands how difficult that is. She continued to try and find ways to deal with the situation.

    I never understand how 'vulnerable' children are expected to deal with situations of discrimination and broken agreements when adults couldn't.

    My son has had lots of problems with languages too. I tend to think that when school is already stressful, trying to translate in your head as you have to, and force your brain to do what it doesn't normally do (work in another language), is extremely difficult for a child with ASD tenancies. With my son, who has real problems writing, he has been allowed to use a laptop so its taken one struggle out of the picture (he's in senior school now). Suddenly he can do Spanish, answering the set work in the given time, whereas he couldn't before. I don't know if the same could help your daughter. I do realise schools are very very unwilling to allow laptop access as to them, writing is all. But now we have finally been given some leeway, his abilities are finally showing. I always said forcing him to write things manually was a major block to learning for him. And his school is finally seeing that! But this is the first time I have been able to successfully negotiate this.

    I had to get quite firm with my son's GP. He was very reluctant to write a letter saying he had school anxiety to enable him to miss the last 3 weeks of year 6 which he was refusing to attend (deep down they think its just a child putting it on even as a GP). I don't know if it will help if you point out to the GP that you need your child to access the rest of school, missing Languages is better than no school.

    And, I am afraid, it might be time to consider moving your child to another school with more what they call parochial support. this is what has made the difference to my son. He's finally at a mainstream school that is prepared to understand ASD, and make school accessible for him. I am no longer fighting to have the simplest aspects of ASD understood. I am no longer viewed with disbelief. You can ask around. In my case a social worker was able to tell me of two schools that were good with ASD, with good parochial support. I have seen my son's school deal with some very difficult circumstances with children with special needs. However, they do have stringent isolation rules which could be a problem for us too. But they have changed my son's experience of school in a radical way. Mostly due to the SENCO finally being what a SENCO should be, knowledgeable and flexible. He is finally able to be the intelligent young man he has always been who is doing well in school. Still problems, but solvable.
    Last edited by deannatrois; 12-02-2018 at 4:07 AM.
    • GwylimT
    • By GwylimT 12th Feb 18, 7:57 AM
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    GwylimT
    • #8
    • 12th Feb 18, 7:57 AM
    • #8
    • 12th Feb 18, 7:57 AM
    When did she last meet with Autism Outreach?

    When did she last see her Ped?

    Languages are commonly very difficult for those with ASD.

    You mention a one page profile and IEP, so I assume she does not have an EHCP?
    • Tabbytabitha
    • By Tabbytabitha 12th Feb 18, 8:05 AM
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    Tabbytabitha
    • #9
    • 12th Feb 18, 8:05 AM
    • #9
    • 12th Feb 18, 8:05 AM
    This is the bit that confused me too. You learn loads of stuff at school that isn't useful in the rea world but you still need to go to the classes.
    Originally posted by Diamandis
    Perhaps you do but languages are useful - particularly if it's the language of the country where you live.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 12th Feb 18, 8:33 AM
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    silvercar
    This is the bit that confused me too. You learn loads of stuff at school that isn't useful in the rea world but you still need to go to the classes.
    Originally posted by Diamandis
    Perhaps you do but languages are useful - particularly if it's the language of the country where you live.
    Originally posted by Tabbytabitha
    As an English speaker who grew up in South Wales, I can tell you that very few people speak solely welsh in South Wales and only a small percentage have welsh as their first language. Often those children are educated in Welsh speaking schools. There is often a general feeling that learning Welsh, made compulsory in schools, is a 'waste' compared to foreign languages. But this is an attitude that is picked up - from family or friends.

    If you already have a pupil with special needs, who feeds off these comments, with the potential to be a refuser, these situations can get worse. The problem is that the attitude is reinforced from outside school and then carries more weight in the mind.

    I don't want to divert the discussion on to the value of learning Welsh, merely saying that for someone to pick out Welsh as a lesson to avoid, they are receiving a message from somewhere to validate their opinion.
    • seven-day-weekend
    • By seven-day-weekend 12th Feb 18, 8:34 AM
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    seven-day-weekend
    My son is now 38 and has mild Asperger's Syndrome. He too found foreign languages inpenetrable, he used to cry if he had to do any speaking in class.

    We asked the teacher if he could not sit his GCSE, it was obvious he was going to fail and we did not think he should be humiliated by having to speak in front of the class (which was part of the assessment).

    A compromise was reached whereby he took the exam, but only had to speak to the teacher, not the whole class, he was OK with that.

    And yes, he did fail.

    Years later when he was in his late 20s, we lived in Spain and he came to visit us with his partner. They went out on their own and I told them that if they ordered food or drink they would have to do it in Spanish as no-one spoke English. I wrote a few things down for him and told him how to pronounce them, he went off and spoke Spanish with no problem.

    I think the problem with French at school was that, at that time, was he didn't realise it was a Foreign Language, that people in France actually spoke, and couldn't get it into his head. My husband said he had the same problem at school, and when he was told to say 'oui' instead of 'yes', didn't understand why he couldn't just say yes.

    Maybe the OP's child has a similar block.
    Last edited by seven-day-weekend; 12-02-2018 at 8:39 AM.
    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 12th Feb 18, 8:58 AM
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    GlasweJen
    It wasn't uncommon in our school for SEN kids to not do foreign languages so the attitude might be coming from the teacher. What's the point in teaching atrix jnr welsh when she can't write in English? If she's heard that from year 2 and up then you're not going to undo that now.
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    • Kim_13
    • By Kim_13 12th Feb 18, 1:27 PM
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    Kim_13
    It wasn't uncommon in our school for SEN kids to not do foreign languages so the attitude might be coming from the teacher. What's the point in teaching atrix jnr welsh when she can't write in English? If she's heard that from year 2 and up then you're not going to undo that now.
    Originally posted by GlasweJen
    Wasn't in my school either, to an extent. Most students had to do French and German, but SEN kids did one language and were given additional English lessons in lieu of the second.

    Thankfully as it stands, foreign languages aren't compulsory at GCSE like they were previously (though schools will push them because of the EBacc.)
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    • atrixblue.-MFR-.
    • By atrixblue.-MFR-. 12th Feb 18, 3:24 PM
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    atrixblue.-MFR-.
    She didn't pick up any negative comments of "we don't need welsh", I'm pro welsh speaking, I wanted to learn it in school but being dyslexic and dyscalculia prevented this. I cant even do basic maths, My engligh teacher spent many of her break and lunch times with me in her class everyday in order to get me to pass my GCSE exam.


    My niece and nephew are both welsh speakers I'm so jealous of them being able to I think welsh is such a "sexy" spoken language. So you WONT find any negatives coming form me or my family about welsh or French.


    She just doesn't "get it" she never did the same way I just don't get math, technology etc. she was never able to engage in class when it was being taught in some ways I'm glad she attended a an English speaking school as the waiting list for the welsh schools in the area are way too long and we missed the cut off date in order to register them.




    The way I learn is through practical being there in the thick of it, I pick things up quickly and adapt to make it effective. I self tought mechanics, (I get my father to set the torque wrenches though and read me the Haynes manuals whilst Ive got the car infront of me so I can visualise what needs to be done. Then I got ill and lost all ability to follow this as a career.


    Sorry waffling on.


    back to task.


    So no she didn't get fed negatives, she just didn't "get it".




    Her anxiety levels are off the charts. We attend Anxiety management provided by the Health board at the young persons unit in Caerleon on a Friday.
    She saw her Psyc ped consultant in November and January.
    She was supposed to have school anxiety councelling provided by school but they she refused it, yet she states this was never mentioned since the meeting and I believe her, as she has no reason to lie about it because she wanted it.
    Gp is noting the refusals I got to call on a week to week basis and not daily tell them the dates she refused etc for it to go into her medical notes.
    I met with deputy head and requested community tuition for Daughter again, he said he would put the referral in but lack in confidence I have of that I also informed our snap representative that I had so she can chase this up. I also contacted him by phone today for a meeting with him and I and snap so things can be discussed.


    She has also taken to self harming in the last 2 years, (I feel like crying here), ive had to go round the house and relatives and risk assess for sharps and potential sharp objects that she can use it co-incides with her low moods and anxiety its progressively got worse, to where she has now cut her face up over the weekend.




    I could have coped with her inheriting Sever Brittle asthma from me, but ASD, its so cruel on times, to boot I could have bi-polar to go along with Aspergers too so me and daughter clash on many levels that don't help with either of our anxieties.


    Ive prepped inclusion team and the home tutoring team at the council, theyre keen to pick the referral up as soon as its received and to hold a emergency meeting with the board to fast track things for me so that's one weight off my kneck but I still feels like I'm drowning.
    "We only have one world, But we live in different worlds"- Mark Knopfler Brothers in arms, Miss you gramps.
    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 12th Feb 18, 3:45 PM
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    GlasweJen
    Try to hang in there Atrix
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    • atrixblue.-MFR-.
    • By atrixblue.-MFR-. 14th Feb 18, 3:23 AM
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    atrixblue.-MFR-.
    Not felt the best today, But looking forward, this must be done, never mind being ill today my daughter is more important than me especially today. 2pm this afternoon meeting with the school wish me good luck I'm gunna need it.
    Last edited by atrixblue.-MFR-.; 14-02-2018 at 6:35 AM.
    "We only have one world, But we live in different worlds"- Mark Knopfler Brothers in arms, Miss you gramps.
    • Elona
    • By Elona 14th Feb 18, 10:15 AM
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    Elona
    Wishing you luck and crossing fingers for you both.
    • gabriel1980
    • By gabriel1980 14th Feb 18, 12:26 PM
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    gabriel1980
    Sounds like she's just playing up and hates school.
    • atrixblue.-MFR-.
    • By atrixblue.-MFR-. 14th Feb 18, 4:07 PM
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    atrixblue.-MFR-.
    Sounds like she's just playing up and hates school.
    Originally posted by gabriel1980
    sounds like you havent read the thread. Wanna take her on for 14days? like you said if she is just playing up and hates school then she will fall into line for you because obviously its all my fault right!?


    Thats my attempt at scarcasm by the way.


    i just think you have no clue about ADHD ASD at all.
    "We only have one world, But we live in different worlds"- Mark Knopfler Brothers in arms, Miss you gramps.
    • atrixblue.-MFR-.
    • By atrixblue.-MFR-. 14th Feb 18, 4:14 PM
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    atrixblue.-MFR-.
    got loads to do coming away from the meeting.


    The referral to home tutoring has gone in.
    I got to Go back with med evidence for Statatory statement.


    There is no Ed Psyc in the councty all three are on maternity leave , saw the letter myself form LEA to school, This is completely outrageous.


    School is updating their uniform policy, a new revised one will be coming out tomorrow ill get a copy of from reception in morning.
    Also got to get med evidence to state certain clothes causes anxiety due to sensory. (don't know how ill do it because health board prevents doc intervention regarding schools).


    Anxiety councilling provided by school, Daughter is on a short waiting list.


    Dis applying daughter from welsh for 6 months. Got to obtain letter of anxiety needs.


    Ive got loads more running around to do also and phone calling in morning.


    So my work rate has doubled the stress levels just went from stressful to digging ones own grave.
    Last edited by atrixblue.-MFR-.; 14-02-2018 at 7:51 PM.
    "We only have one world, But we live in different worlds"- Mark Knopfler Brothers in arms, Miss you gramps.
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