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  • FIRST POST
    • DJP1987
    • By DJP1987 7th Feb 18, 10:17 PM
    • 4Posts
    • 3Thanks
    DJP1987
    New Build - Paid SUBSTANTIALLY more than neighbour
    • #1
    • 7th Feb 18, 10:17 PM
    New Build - Paid SUBSTANTIALLY more than neighbour 7th Feb 18 at 10:17 PM
    Hifirst time poster and I'm hoping you can help.

    I've recently gone through a first time buyer process and have just exchanged contracts today, YAY, etc. Now, we've gone through everything including valuation and all of the formalities and the reality is we were overpaying for our house by approximately £7,000 but given I got around £5,000 worth of extras, I was willing to overlook and also it seems to be how new builds are marketed.

    Now, after exchanging contracts (completing in around 2 weeks) I've just found out our plot 2 doors along (exact same house type, build, just a very minorly smaller back garden) has been sold for £30,000 less (£236k down to £205k).

    Now, I'd haggled, tried to get incentives, etc including paying stamp duty (wife isn't a first time buyer so we didn't qualify for the relief) and I was flat turned down after I'd gotten the other bits included. Now imagining I take into account the garden and the £5,000 extras, I make this out to be around £23,000 difference in cost (approx 10% of the value of the house).

    Is there anything I can do on this, do I have a leg to stand on from a legal viewpoint? I have a feeling this is chalking it down to really poor negotiating by me but this amount feels far too large to just let it lie.

    Thanks guys (and gals),
Page 2
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 8th Feb 18, 2:15 PM
    • 7,629 Posts
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    davidmcn
    Not sure how that explains the 30k drop in the OP`s street?
    Originally posted by Crashy Time
    I thought it was a 30k rise? i.e. the neighbour bought before him?
    • Carrie_bie
    • By Carrie_bie 8th Feb 18, 2:40 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Carrie_bie
    In south west London, the demands for houses are so high (or at least that's what they tell you) that you can expect to pay 5K more for your new build house just because you were behind someone else in the reception queue on the developer's open day.

    One of my colleagues queued up early on his open day and managed to get his identical house for 20K less than the last couple in the queue on the same day. Value is driven by supply and demand...
    Last edited by Carrie_bie; 08-02-2018 at 2:42 PM.
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 8th Feb 18, 4:45 PM
    • 9,037 Posts
    • 5,386 Thanks
    teddysmum
    When my son took me to see his new build, which he and his wife had just agreed to buy, I pointed out that the price on a banner on his house's end wall was lower than what he was paying. He queried it with the builders,who told him that there had been a price rise while his house was still at the empty shell stage and that the next of that design would be even more expensive as it wasn't due to be raised until some months later.


    He then found that his neighbour across the cul-de-sac , in a mirror image of hi house,had paid even less and had a slightly larger garden.


    This was happening even in the early 1970s,when we bought our house which was more or less finished,as the next phase of four ,at the shell stage was priced higher,but had smaller
    gardens.
    Last edited by teddysmum; 08-02-2018 at 4:51 PM.
    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 10th Feb 18, 3:22 PM
    • 6,058 Posts
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    Crashy Time
    I thought it was a 30k rise? i.e. the neighbour bought before him?
    Originally posted by davidmcn

    "Now, after exchanging contracts (completing in around 2 weeks) I've just found out our plot 2 doors along (exact same house type, build, just a very minorly smaller back garden) has been sold for £30,000 less (£236k down to £205k)."


    No, looks like a 30k loss straight off the bat
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 10th Feb 18, 4:23 PM
    • 7,629 Posts
    • 7,757 Thanks
    davidmcn
    "Now, after exchanging contracts (completing in around 2 weeks) I've just found out our plot 2 doors along (exact same house type, build, just a very minorly smaller back garden) has been sold for £30,000 less (£236k down to £205k)."


    No, looks like a 30k loss straight off the bat
    Originally posted by Crashy Time
    The OP doesn't clarify, but I presumed that was information from the registered sale i.e. several months ahead of their own transaction.
    • Lunchbox
    • By Lunchbox 10th Feb 18, 5:33 PM
    • 186 Posts
    • 154 Thanks
    Lunchbox
    A flat completely identical to ours, three floors higher (not top floor or a ‘penthouse’) was £50k more expensive. A few weeks after we reserved, the developer raised the prices by 20% and everyone in the block exchanged and completed within a week or two of each other a few months later having paid vastly different prices. It’s just how new builds work and you just have to make sure you’re happy with what you’re paying regardless of anyone else.
    • DJP1987
    • By DJP1987 16th Feb 18, 12:52 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    DJP1987
    Guys, firstly I want to thank everyone for the replies on this. It's appreciated and has made me realise what not to do in the future.

    However, today the plot thickened.

    So, we had our demo visit today and the site manager, lovely man, let slip that Plot 11 was actually being bought by the Developers own quantity surveyor. I could see the sales rep twitching as he was saying it because she's aware I have logged this as a complaint with their head office (what you don't ask, you don't get right? I'm sure they don't want an unhappy resident 3 doors from the site office).

    Now, are there any rules around insider trading or anything on sites like this? Given he's the company's Senior Quantity Surveyor for the region (found out his name and looked him up), surely there's something unethical about me being in a purchase process, 2 doors down having £31k knocked off the asking price and then a day or two later an offer being accepted on it from the Employee?

    Again, I think it's a code of ethics, insider trading or something along those lines. The PR would obviously be poor so I'll not name the developer until they don't give me a satisfactory resolution!
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 16th Feb 18, 1:22 PM
    • 2,647 Posts
    • 3,782 Thanks
    ReadingTim
    Guys, firstly I want to thank everyone for the replies on this. It's appreciated and has made me realise what not to do in the future.

    However, today the plot thickened.

    So, we had our demo visit today and the site manager, lovely man, let slip that Plot 11 was actually being bought by the Developers own quantity surveyor. I could see the sales rep twitching as he was saying it because she's aware I have logged this as a complaint with their head office (what you don't ask, you don't get right? I'm sure they don't want an unhappy resident 3 doors from the site office).

    Now, are there any rules around insider trading or anything on sites like this? Given he's the company's Senior Quantity Surveyor for the region (found out his name and looked him up), surely there's something unethical about me being in a purchase process, 2 doors down having £31k knocked off the asking price and then a day or two later an offer being accepted on it from the Employee?

    Again, I think it's a code of ethics, insider trading or something along those lines. The PR would obviously be poor so I'll not name the developer until they don't give me a satisfactory resolution!
    Originally posted by DJP1987
    No mate, it's really not. It's called a staff discount, and some companies offer them. Airline staff, for example, often get cheap flights - my brother, who works for BA does. Housebuilders are exactly the same, and I should know. I used to work for one.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 16th Feb 18, 1:32 PM
    • 17,358 Posts
    • 15,700 Thanks
    AdrianC
    If this was the most sought-after first plot to sell on the site, then you might have some grounds for a gripe. But it's not. It's the runt of the litter, the last one left on the shelf. They reduced it for general public purchase...

    ...and then somebody who may or may not also have a staff discount decided "soddit, for that lower price, I'll go for it. Didn't think it was worth the full whack, but..."

    You, otoh, decided your plot was worth the full whack. You're merely getting buyer's remorse now.

    New house developments are not a dutch auction.
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 16th Feb 18, 1:34 PM
    • 7,823 Posts
    • 14,291 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    Now, are there any rules around insider trading or anything on sites like this? Given he's the company's Senior Quantity Surveyor for the region (found out his name and looked him up), surely there's something unethical about me being in a purchase process, 2 doors down having £31k knocked off the asking price and then a day or two later an offer being accepted on it from the Employee?

    Again, I think it's a code of ethics, insider trading or something along those lines. The PR would obviously be poor so I'll not name the developer until they don't give me a satisfactory resolution!
    Originally posted by DJP1987
    I know when I worked at Tesco I used to be able to walk through the checkout with a discount card and my weekly shop came to a good bit lower than the people before or after me in the queue, if they bought the same thing.

    When I worked at McDonald's, I would get free chicken nuggets or milkshakes on my breaks.

    Decades ago, my grandfather's close family used to get free air travel with BOAC (now BA) because he was an engineer with them. Even after he retired.

    When my sister worked for Sky she got a Sony TV on the cheap. When my friend worked for a supplier of theirs he got a discounted subscription.

    When I bought some luggage from a portfolio company of a venture capital trust I'd invested in, I got it half price.

    A friend working for a car company can get a big discount off the showroom price if he buys new.

    A senior quantity surveyor for a housebuilding business doesn't have to pay full price to buy a house they built.

    I don't think you can say that any of those things are 'unethical'.

    You are saying that he paid less than market price. What would be unethical is if they decided to reward the senior staff member by giving him a big bonus so he could go and buy a house for £31k *more* than the going rate... thus artificially inflating the sold prices on their estate and making you and other members of the public think that people were generally paying £260k for houses on that development as an open market rate, so that you would be willing to pay 260 instead of 230, because you'd been misled that people think they're worth £260k, when actually the £260k was an artificially inflated price not at arm's length.

    But they didn't do that unethical thing. Instead, they sold to you at what you thought was a fair price for quality and location when compared with all of the other new or old properties you could have bought anywhere across the country; and separately they gave a 15% discount to an employee.

    It's not a big deal and the other posters on the thread are right that similar properties will have different prices as an estate is sold anyway. You don't have a chance in hell of getting £30k off your property now you have signed a contract at whatever you signed it at. So, don't worry about it.

    All property companies have a vested self-interest in inflating their property prices. To instead give staff discount in a way that doesn't artificially inflate the sold prices of their properties but suppresses them instead, is helpful to all of us wanting to buy property, not to the company which wants to sell more at higher prices.
    Last edited by bowlhead99; 16-02-2018 at 1:42 PM.
    • DJP1987
    • By DJP1987 25th Feb 18, 12:38 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    DJP1987
    Thought I'd throw in here guys that on the back of my complaint, the developer has agreed to turf and patio my back garden (which is around 120m2) as a settlement.

    Appreciate all the responses and the sense talked even against me - but there's proof here that if something is as extreme, there's still some worth in following it up. I'm getting around £3,000 worth of work done here just so

    Lessons learnt from me in the future - but the GOGW from the developer feels substantial and is making my moving process much easier and happier (albeit, massively stressful, who could enjoy moving?!).

    Thanks again all
    • parking_question_chap
    • By parking_question_chap 25th Feb 18, 12:42 AM
    • 1,612 Posts
    • 1,401 Thanks
    parking_question_chap
    It's a bit like talking to the guy in the seat next to you on a Ryanair flight...

    Simple answer is that if you'd waited until the developer got desperate to shift the last few plots, you may have found there were none left. You got in early, you got the full choice.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    What is it really £30k to use the toilet onboard now?
    • Ozzuk
    • By Ozzuk 26th Feb 18, 12:19 PM
    • 1,318 Posts
    • 1,948 Thanks
    Ozzuk
    No it isn`t, it is 30k, and as rates rise he is paying interest on it, the sooner debt is priced at sensible rates again the sooner people will stop thinking that getting into a few 100k debt is like buying a fish supper up the road, and hopefully more over-charging developers will start going bust
    Originally posted by Crashy Time
    Sadly, the end of this tale isn't confirmation of impending doom, but rather a suggestion that we should become quantity surveyors...

    Anyway...rent is debt for life.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 26th Feb 18, 12:22 PM
    • 2,970 Posts
    • 2,938 Thanks
    Comms69
    Guys, firstly I want to thank everyone for the replies on this. It's appreciated and has made me realise what not to do in the future.

    However, today the plot thickened.

    So, we had our demo visit today and the site manager, lovely man, let slip that Plot 11 was actually being bought by the Developers own quantity surveyor. I could see the sales rep twitching as he was saying it because she's aware I have logged this as a complaint with their head office (what you don't ask, you don't get right? I'm sure they don't want an unhappy resident 3 doors from the site office).

    Now, are there any rules around insider trading or anything on sites like this? Given he's the company's Senior Quantity Surveyor for the region (found out his name and looked him up), surely there's something unethical about me being in a purchase process, 2 doors down having £31k knocked off the asking price and then a day or two later an offer being accepted on it from the Employee?

    Again, I think it's a code of ethics, insider trading or something along those lines. The PR would obviously be poor so I'll not name the developer until they don't give me a satisfactory resolution!
    Originally posted by DJP1987
    Given I work in PR, it would be fantastic....


    Come work for us! We offer a discount on your home purchase if you buy on one of our new estates.


    You're clutching at straws. They could give the house to him for free if they wanted to.
    • ThePants999
    • By ThePants999 26th Feb 18, 12:40 PM
    • 1,111 Posts
    • 1,362 Thanks
    ThePants999
    FWIW, this is the main reason why developers are so keen to give incentives like stamp duty and upgrades rather than drop the price!
    • ACG
    • By ACG 26th Feb 18, 3:10 PM
    • 16,816 Posts
    • 8,773 Thanks
    ACG
    How many years have you been saying that now Crashy? And have any of your hopes and dreams come true? Thought not.
    Originally posted by ReadingTim
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=66170152&postcount=7

    At least 3 and a half years.

    House prices have gone up by around £35k on average in that time - https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/housepriceindex/december2017

    Give or take, £10k per year added to the fact home owners would have paid down some of their Mortgage in that time and probably paid less on a Mortgage than they would have in rent.
    I am a Mortgage Adviser
    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a mortgage adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 26th Feb 18, 3:13 PM
    • 6,058 Posts
    • 2,345 Thanks
    Crashy Time
    Sadly, the end of this tale isn't confirmation of impending doom, but rather a suggestion that we should become quantity surveyors...

    Anyway...rent is debt for life.
    Originally posted by Ozzuk

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-5434005/UK-mortgage-bill-increase-10-billion-1-rate-rise.html


    People have been taking out 30 year mortgages though, they would have been better with the flexibility of renting, at least they would be able to move somewhere else without waiting years for a buyer?
    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 26th Feb 18, 3:15 PM
    • 6,058 Posts
    • 2,345 Thanks
    Crashy Time
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=66170152&postcount=7

    At least 3 and a half years.

    House prices have gone up by around £35k on average in that time - https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/housepriceindex/december2017

    Give or take, £10k per year added to the fact home owners would have paid down some of their Mortgage in that time and probably paid less on a Mortgage than they would have in rent.
    Originally posted by ACG

    How have house sales done in that time? Don`t forget, a large number of people believed that property would be their pension.......
    • Ozzuk
    • By Ozzuk 26th Feb 18, 4:49 PM
    • 1,318 Posts
    • 1,948 Thanks
    Ozzuk
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-5434005/UK-mortgage-bill-increase-10-billion-1-rate-rise.html


    People have been taking out 30 year mortgages though, they would have been better with the flexibility of renting, at least they would be able to move somewhere else without waiting years for a buyer?
    Originally posted by Crashy Time
    30 yr old decides to buy house, 30 year mortgage. What do they then own at 60 (which they could then sell and rent if so inclined)?

    30 yr old decides to rent, 60 years of rent ahead of him?

    I know its not as simple as that. Rent if you want to, lots of positive reasons to, but as a financially sound decision, no (IMO).
    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 26th Feb 18, 5:34 PM
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    • 2,345 Thanks
    Crashy Time
    30 yr old decides to buy house, 30 year mortgage. What do they then own at 60 (which they could then sell and rent if so inclined)?

    30 yr old decides to rent, 60 years of rent ahead of him?

    I know its not as simple as that. Rent if you want to, lots of positive reasons to, but as a financially sound decision, no (IMO).
    Originally posted by Ozzuk

    Problem with your theory is that most 30 year olds can`t afford to buy. The market is broken, borrowing money to buy into an obvious bubble with interest rates only set to go up is a massive risk IMO.
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