Replacing Storage Heaters
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Hi there
I am sorry to interrupt this thread. However I thank you all for contributing to such a useful forum.
I have been in search of genuine advice around heating options lately. I occupy a 1960s flat which is only connected to the electric network. So no gas option. The management disallows any external installation. No solar panels (completely free in running costs). No air source heat pumps (the cheapest option of running costs I believe). From the data provided by the energy provider, I estimate that the bills have been around GBP 100 to 120 when occupied by the seller. So I had to find a way around this hefty charges.
The energy provider at the moment is edf which charges around 8p for night usage and 22p for day usage. My usage proportion has been around 60% day and 40% night. So it made sense to me to find the lowest average rate while maintaining the E7 meter. I opted for Utility Point which should complete the switch by the end of this month. The rates offered are roughly 0.105 night and 0.115 day. Not the lowest but the average rate is better.
I was tempted by electric radiators (Rointe and economy radiators company). Rointe provides 6 years panel warranty if installed by their installers and 25 years for the body. ERC provides 10 years for the body but only 3 years for the panel. However Rointe units are nearly (GBP 2500 to 3000) double the price of ERC units (GBP 1500) for a supply of 4 heaters for the required floor space in the flat. I wanted to do this while retaining the E7 meter so that if I sell in the future the buyer can choose what he or she wants to do or if the day tariffs increases more significantly to the night tariff (though they might have to change the electric radiators to storage heaters if they switch to NSH). The electric radiator traders say that
i) you have the space warm when you require them to be warm
ii) they use less kWhs (one example said you require around 3 to 4 kWh for a period time which will require 7 hours of heating by NSH), this is partly because the electric radiators go into low mode once they have reached the temperature required using high mode, however this savings in units will be pointless if tariffs change in a way that the night rates are significantly lower than day rates
iii) they don't lose heat through retention like NSH do
However I found a number of your threads and I started to realise that I might be making a critical mistake there. Considering that I will have to have rewiring/change of connections, I felt switching to electric radiators can be risky if they don't save consumption costs as many have expressed online through review sites. So I started to think about replacing the existing old Dimplex NSH to latest versions. What brands can I consider? Dimplex appears to be reliable however they are quite expensive as the Quantom units will cost me between GBP 2500 to GBP 3000. I require NSH units which are efficient however I don't require very sophisticated functions if they don't help efficiency. Will there be other brands will reliable reputation and genuine coverage to consider? Dimplex offers 10 years as warranty if I am properly aware.
This has been a roller coster ride. I was thinking that Solar Panels > Air Source Heat Pumps > Radiators > NSH however I am starting to think that NSH and Radiators should be swapped around in this expression.
Hope you can advise. I only wish that this flat had duel fuel connectivity. No brainer to have heating supplied by gas when you live in a flat with no option to install solar panels or air source heat pumps.
Thank you very much.
Nat0 -
Storage heaters from 1997 are relatively 'babies'. You will not save any money by replacing them, as modern ones have electronics inside. These will require expensive repairs in ten years, while if you keep your 1997 heaters, they will still be working.
BTW, I am surprised at your low night rate proportion. I would have thought you could easily get up to 80/20, and then get a tariff with a cheaper night rate.0 -
I was tempted by electric radiators (Rointe and economy radiators company). Rointe provides 6 years panel warranty if installed by their installers and 25 years for the body. ERC provides 10 years for the body but only 3 years for the panel. However Rointe units are nearly (GBP 2500 to 3000) double the price of ERC units (GBP 1500) for a supply of 4 heaters for the required floor space in the flat. I wanted to do this while retaining the E7 meter so that if I sell in the future the buyer can choose what he or she wants to do or if the day tariffs increases more significantly to the night tariff (though they might have to change the electric radiators to storage heaters if they switch to NSH). The electric radiator traders say that
i) you have the space warm when you require them to be warm
ii) they use less kWhs (one example said you require around 3 to 4 kWh for a period time which will require 7 hours of heating by NSH), this is partly because the electric radiators go into low mode once they have reached the temperature required using high mode, however this savings in units will be pointless if tariffs change in a way that the night rates are significantly lower than day rates
iii) they don't lose heat through retention like NSH do
However I found a number of your threads and I started to realise that I might be making a critical mistake there. Considering that I will have to have rewiring/change of connections, I felt switching to electric radiators can be risky if they don't save consumption costs as many have expressed online through review sites. So I started to think about replacing the existing old Dimplex NSH to latest versions. What brands can I consider? Dimplex appears to be reliable however they are quite expensive as the Quantom units will cost me between GBP 2500 to GBP 3000. I require NSH units which are efficient however I don't require very sophisticated functions if they don't help efficiency. Will there be other brands will reliable reputation and genuine coverage to consider? Dimplex offers 10 years as warranty if I am properly aware.
This has been a roller coster ride. I was thinking that Solar Panels > Air Source Heat Pumps > Radiators > NSH however I am starting to think that NSH and Radiators should be swapped around in this expression.
Hope you can advise. I only wish that this flat had duel fuel connectivity. No brainer to have heating supplied by gas when you live in a flat with no option to install solar panels or air source heat pumps.
Thank you very much.
Nat
Welcome to the forum.
Solar panels are not a solution for heating.
Air Source Heat Pumps are problematic for flats - even on the ground floor - as their noise can disturb other flat occupants.
Don't forget also that moving from Storage heaters on E7 to radiators on a 'normal' 24/7 tariff will mean heating water by immersion at daytime rates(unless your flat has communal HW)
Personally I would retain your present storage heaters rather than spending around £3,000 on Quantum heaters. If you need more warmth in the evenings, use a £10 fan heater. You will get a lot of extra heat for £3,000!!0 -
Hi jko
Thank you very much. Sorry not sure why you deemed the NSH to be from 1997 but I think they must be older than that. Appears quite dated to me. Any way I could find out from any labels or descriptions around the units?
With the proportion yes I was surprised. Reading 1 seems to have 60% of the total used historically from the point the meter has been installed. Reading 2 has 40%. This was the reason I felt I should keep the E7 meter but switch to a lower average rate.
Hi Cardew
Thank you very much. Yes not only do the Quantom units cost that much but I might be in trouble if the panels go bad in a number of years. Would you be suggesting any other models within Quantom or probably any other cheaper brands outside Dimplex?
Thank you very much.0 -
Due to something called LOT 20 legislation, which sets minimum standards of efficiency, Dimplex will no longer be manufacturing its basic XLS/CXLS storage heaters. Those already in stock can continue to be sold.
It seems the new version, XLE heaters are more programmable. Personally, I think the new heaters are really ugly compared to the existing ones, but I have only seen pictures, so may look better than shown.0 -
Hi jko
Thank you very much. Sorry not sure why you deemed the NSH to be from 1997 but I think they must be older than that. Appears quite dated to me. Any way I could find out from any labels or descriptions around the units?
With the proportion yes I was surprised. Reading 1 seems to have 60% of the total used historically from the point the meter has been installed. Reading 2 has 40%. This was the reason I felt I should keep the E7 meter but switch to a lower average rate.
Ha ha. I don't know where I got 1997 from either. Maybe I read back in the thread, and got yours confused. If you give us the model no. we can probably tell you the period of your heaters.
I would not take too much notice of the meter readings. There are some ignorant people who prefer to pay for lots of top up. (I despair of my tenants, who do this even after I explain how the system works.
) 0 -
Actually I felt foolish that I didn't check the models online. Thank you for suggesting. So in the lounge (3.5 m x 5.5 m), there is a CXL24N which seems to be a 3.4kW unit. The entrance (2.5 m x 2.5 m) and one room (3.25 m x 3.5 m) both have XLS18N each which seems to be a 2.5kW unit. One other room (2.5 m x 2.5 m) has a heated panel (no night connection I think just a regular any time connection).
With the 3 Dimplex units, they are seem to be units sold by traders online (for example TLC).Strange though as there many countless dents, scratches and what appears to be rusts to be in very dusty units. That was what made me think they required an update for efficiency. When you adjust the boost (output), some sort of metal cling noise made me think they are very aged. What a surprise.
1. So they can't be that old? One thing though the online descriptions say they have automatic sensors. However I don't think the existing ones do as they have manual knobs in them for manual adjustments. So probably while the model reference remained, the existing ones are of older generations?
2. How do I give them a thorough clean? Safe to be attended to myself or should I find the right electrician or engineer to 'service' these for me?
Sorry I have been posing so many queries here but you people are gem.0 -
So this suggests the XLS and CXLS are not that efficient? Would this be marginal 5% improvements with the Quantom realistically speaking or more?Due to something called LOT 20 legislation, which sets minimum standards of efficiency, Dimplex will no longer be manufacturing its basic XLS/CXLS storage heaters. Those already in stock can continue to be sold.
It seems the new version, XLE heaters are more programmable. Personally, I think the new heaters are really ugly compared to the existing ones, but I have only seen pictures, so may look better than shown.0 -
If you look at the way Quantum are advertised and specified you'll see that they are undersized compared with normal storage heaters and rely on the inbuilt auxiliary boost heater to make up the shortfall.
So the storage part wont actually keep your place as warm as a conventional heater unless it has the same capacity( ie a 2.8kw Quantum wont store as much heat as a 3,5kw conventional storage heater) which means you'll need to top up your heating use the auxiliary boost with peak rate electricity.
As Cardew says you'll get better value by learning how to use the storage heaters you've got and get a £10-£15 fan heater for a quick boost if necessary, because in effect, that's all a Qunatum is
£2-£3000 will pay for an awful lot of of leccy and as said by others you'll need the same number of kwh to heat the place from whatever source it comes from.Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large numbers0 -
Actually I felt foolish that I didn't check the models online. Thank you for suggesting. So in the lounge (3.5 m x 5.5 m), there is a CXL24N which seems to be a 3.4kW unit. The entrance (2.5 m x 2.5 m) and one room (3.25 m x 3.5 m) both have XLS18N each which seems to be a 2.5kW unit. One other room (2.5 m x 2.5 m) has a heated panel (no night connection I think just a regular any time connection).
With the 3 Dimplex units, they are seem to be units sold by traders online (for example TLC).Strange though as there many countless dents, scratches and what appears to be rusts to be in very dusty units. That was what made me think they required an update for efficiency. When you adjust the boost (output), some sort of metal cling noise made me think they are very aged. What a surprise.
1. So they can't be that old? One thing though the online descriptions say they have automatic sensors. However I don't think the existing ones do as they have manual knobs in them for manual adjustments. So probably while the model reference remained, the existing ones are of older generations?
2. How do I give them a thorough clean? Safe to be attended to myself or should I find the right electrician or engineer to 'service' these for me?
Sorry I have been posing so many queries here but you people are gem.
The controls are there for you to adjust how warm you want the place. Once you find a setting, you should be able to leave the input control alone all year round.
For cleaning, first switch off all switches and allow two days to cool down.
If you get yourself a spanner and remove the two hex screws either side of the base, the whole front & top can be lifted off. (Top has philips screws securing it if I remember rightly.) Pull off the controls gently.
These parts can then be put to soak in the bath. After an hour, scrub with some Cif cream, and they should come up beautifully. I removed the grills before soaking also.
Hoover out the innards and then wipe with a damp cloth. You can use cif cream on the side panels also if you don't want to take the whole thing apart.0
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