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  • FIRST POST
    • PaddyByrne
    • By PaddyByrne 27th Jan 18, 4:14 PM
    • 2Posts
    • 0Thanks
    PaddyByrne
    Replacing Storage Heaters
    • #1
    • 27th Jan 18, 4:14 PM
    Replacing Storage Heaters 27th Jan 18 at 4:14 PM
    I live in a building that was converted to flats around 1999 and has the original storage heaters installed in the flat (I moved in just before Christmas). The flat has poor insulation due to very high roofs and large windows and the storage heaters, even turned up to full, have struggled to keep the flat comfortably warm over the winter. Having the heaters on full has also racked up a somewhat horrendous energy bill, so I'm looking at what the alternatives are.

    I have read some conflicting opinions about whether changing from storage heaters on Economy 7 to electric radiators on 24h power is a sensible option. I heard from someone in my building that installing radiators from VeriSmart Heating and switching off their Economy 7 tariff reduced their heating bill by close to £1,000 a year (and that they keep the flat nicely warm). Conversely I have read some pretty terrible things about Fischer heaters on site and the technology looks very similar.

    My current thinking is that I am going to get the heaters replaced but seeing the comments on Fischer heaters has made me nervous that I might just be throwing £2-3k down the drain without getting much benefit so wanted to get some more information before going ahead with the purchase, so any opinions would be appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Patrick
Page 2
    • jk0
    • By jk0 8th Apr 18, 4:22 PM
    • 2,276 Posts
    • 24,606 Thanks
    jk0
    Actually I felt foolish that I didn't check the models online. Thank you for suggesting. So in the lounge (3.5 m x 5.5 m), there is a CXL24N which seems to be a 3.4kW unit. The entrance (2.5 m x 2.5 m) and one room (3.25 m x 3.5 m) both have XLS18N each which seems to be a 2.5kW unit. One other room (2.5 m x 2.5 m) has a heated panel (no night connection I think just a regular any time connection).

    With the 3 Dimplex units, they are seem to be units sold by traders online (for example TLC).Strange though as there many countless dents, scratches and what appears to be rusts to be in very dusty units. That was what made me think they required an update for efficiency. When you adjust the boost (output), some sort of metal cling noise made me think they are very aged. What a surprise.

    1. So they can't be that old? One thing though the online descriptions say they have automatic sensors. However I don't think the existing ones do as they have manual knobs in them for manual adjustments. So probably while the model reference remained, the existing ones are of older generations?
    2. How do I give them a thorough clean? Safe to be attended to myself or should I find the right electrician or engineer to 'service' these for me?

    Sorry I have been posing so many queries here but you people are gem.
    Originally posted by pnat
    The controls are there for you to adjust how warm you want the place. Once you find a setting, you should be able to leave the input control alone all year round.

    For cleaning, first switch off all switches and allow two days to cool down.

    If you get yourself a spanner and remove the two hex screws either side of the base, the whole front & top can be lifted off. (Top has philips screws securing it if I remember rightly.) Pull off the controls gently.

    These parts can then be put to soak in the bath. After an hour, scrub with some Cif cream, and they should come up beautifully. I removed the grills before soaking also.

    Hoover out the innards and then wipe with a damp cloth. You can use cif cream on the side panels also if you don't want to take the whole thing apart.
    Last edited by jk0; 08-04-2018 at 4:25 PM.
    • alex1483
    • By alex1483 9th Apr 18, 12:59 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    alex1483
    Hello all, I'm new to this forum.

    I'm having a similar dither on whether to stick with NSH (seems to me Dimplex Quantum a good option) or ditch E7 and go normal tariff with something like Rointe with what looks like excellent control (phone app, zone control, etc.).

    A friend has Quantum, and it seems to me that when they are not programmed to deliver heat (e.g. during the day) and you feel around them they do not leak much heat at all - just a bit from the top which might actually be enough to take the edge off on a chilly day, or enough during the night. When they do come on to deliver heat, they do chuck it out quite nicely from the fan at the bottom. However, on a mild day then that heat loss, albeit small, is wastage.

    As off peak electricity is around 40% cheaper than normal tariff, as long as the Quantum (or other NSH) can save enough heat for the evening then they can waste 40% of their heat (e.g. that leakage when off) in order to have the same running costs as 'normal' electric heating.

    I do like the Rointe though, full control and an app! However, for the 7 months or so of the year that you don't use heating then you're not getting the benefit of an E7 tariff to heat the hot water more cheaply.

    There doesn't appear to be a clear winner. I reckon E7 and NSH (fitted on internal walls) in living room and bedroom, with panel heater in kitchen and bathroom (my kitchen doesn't seem to get that cold, and leads from living room anyway) might be slightly cheaper to run that 'normal' electric heating throughout, even with the better control of normal heating. Feel free to challenge me on that - I would appreciate it!

    One morning at a friend's though, the Quantum did seem to go beserk at about 6am with fan on full blast chucking out loads of heat, so much so that we woke up. Perhaps it thought it was colder than it was - I can't see how it can measure room temp accurately with an in built temp sensor rather than a remote thermostat. Rointe don't seem to have remote sensor either.


    I'd quite like a diy solution with cheap electric fan heaters and remote sensor and wifi controlled plugs and a phone app to programme. But i'm concerned about value of the property when I sell it - I don't mind spending £4k on a new heating system if the investment attracts more buyers and I get the money back when selling. They are more likely to be put off with would be perceived as some cheap diy'd lashed up system!

    Don't know if this helps or not, it's just some thoughts!
    Last edited by alex1483; 09-04-2018 at 1:12 PM.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 9th Apr 18, 1:26 PM
    • 27,274 Posts
    • 13,357 Thanks
    Cardew
    Hello all, I'm new to this forum.

    I'm having a similar dither on whether to stick with NSH (seems to me Dimplex Quantum a good option) or ditch E7 and go normal tariff with something like Rointe with what looks like excellent control (phone app, zone control, etc.).

    A friend has Quantum, and it seems to me that when they are not programmed to deliver heat (e.g. during the day) and you feel around them they do not leak much heat at all - just a bit from the top which might actually be enough to take the edge off on a chilly day, or enough during the night. When they do come on to deliver heat, they do chuck it out quite nicely from the fan at the bottom. However, on a mild day then that heat loss, albeit small, is wastage.

    As off peak electricity is around 40% cheaper than normal tariff, as long as the Quantum (or other NSH) can save enough heat for the evening then they can waste 40% of their heat (e.g. that leakage when off) in order to have the same running costs as 'normal' electric heating.

    I do like the Rointe though, full control and an app! However, for the 7 months or so of the year that you don't use heating then you're not getting the benefit of an E7 tariff to heat the hot water more cheaply.

    There doesn't appear to be a clear winner. I reckon E7 and NSH (fitted on internal walls) in living room and bedroom, with panel heater in kitchen and bathroom (my kitchen doesn't seem to get that cold, and leads from living room anyway) might be slightly cheaper to run that 'normal' electric heating throughout, even with the better control of normal heating. Feel free to challenge me on that - I would appreciate it!

    One morning at a friend's though, the Quantum did seem to go beserk at about 6am with fan on full blast chucking out loads of heat, so much so that we woke up. Perhaps it thought it was colder than it was - I can't see how it can measure room temp accurately with an in built temp sensor rather than a remote thermostat. Rointe don't seem to have remote sensor either.

    Don't know if this helps or not, it's just some thoughts!
    Originally posted by alex1483
    Welcome to the forum.

    If you decide on NSH, do you intend to keep your present NSH heaters or get Quantum? If the latter you haven't explained the reason for a huge outlay.

    Personally I wouldn't be tempted to pay high prices for panel electrical heaters because they have 'full control' and an app. You can buy plug-in timer/thermostats with remote control very cheaply. Also the electrics on most of these expensive heaters have a much shorter warranty than the body. (Rointe is 3 years)
    • coffeehound
    • By coffeehound 9th Apr 18, 2:19 PM
    • 1,323 Posts
    • 2,156 Thanks
    coffeehound
    One morning at a friend's though, the Quantum did seem to go beserk at about 6am with fan on full blast chucking out loads of heat, so much so that we woke up. Perhaps it thought it was colder than it was ...
    Originally posted by alex1483
    This part of the Quantum's operating mode. It uses the built-in standard heater to bring rooms up to temperature ready for when you get up in the morning. This should be still using off-peak electricity.

    If you already have standard NSHs and a modern digital electricity meter, you can achieve the same effect by running plug-in heaters on a timer. As you say, it's a bit of a lash-up but achieves the same result.
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 9th Apr 18, 2:24 PM
    • 3,503 Posts
    • 2,171 Thanks
    matelodave
    Rointe heaters are basically oil filled radiators and the controlers are fiendishly difficult tp programme. Their only benefit over say a Fischer is that they are a bit cheaper to buy but still cost silly money

    1kwh from a Rointe will produce the same amount of heat and cost exactly the same as 1kwh from a oil filled rad from Argos, B&Q or anywhere else.
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    Look after our planet - it's the only one with beer
    • alex1483
    • By alex1483 9th Apr 18, 5:30 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    alex1483
    Rointe heaters are basically oil filled radiators and the controlers are fiendishly difficult tp programme. Their only benefit over say a Fischer is that they are a bit cheaper to buy but still cost silly money

    1kwh from a Rointe will produce the same amount of heat and cost exactly the same as 1kwh from a oil filled rad from Argos, B&Q or anywhere else.
    Originally posted by matelodave

    I haven't actually tried Rointe but they do look finicky to operate!


    I'm aware 1kWis 1kW. But there's also the way that heat comes out e.g. radiate, convect, fan, etc. My current old NSHs don't distribute the heat around the room very well - a better designed radiator (like the more expensive electric ones, or the normal GCH type radiators) will. Although the more expensive electric ones that do a better job of distributing the heat are still of course FAR too much money for what they are. Much like estate agents.



    Welcome to the forum.

    If you decide on NSH, do you intend to keep your present NSH heaters or get Quantum? If the latter you haven't explained the reason for a huge outlay.

    Personally I wouldn't be tempted to pay high prices for panel electrical heaters because they have 'full control' and an app. You can buy plug-in timer/thermostats with remote control very cheaply. Also the electrics on most of these expensive heaters have a much shorter warranty than the body. (Rointe is 3 years)
    Originally posted by Cardew

    Thanks!


    I want to replace the old NSH because they make the place far too hot in the morning and far too cold in the evening, even when closing and opening dampers etc. as necessary. The knob for one damper is broken and shut closed anyway. Also no proper control and no holiday mode. Plus they look cack and i'm renovating the place! I have acquired a retro 1970s Belling heater for top up, and also it looks good!

    The Quantum's seem to insulate the heat quite well when they are programmed to be off, and they have more modern controls such as holiday mode, that's why i'm interested.


    Cheers
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 9th Apr 18, 5:39 PM
    • 3,503 Posts
    • 2,171 Thanks
    matelodave
    There's some useful info here https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/home-heating-systems/article/home-heating-systems/storage-heaters
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    Look after our planet - it's the only one with beer
    • tulip46
    • By tulip46 11th Apr 18, 11:30 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    tulip46
    friendly advice from experienced storage heater users
    Hi, we live in a 1970s flat and replaced the old (Dimplex) storage heaters some 10 years ago which are much more user friendly because both input and output controls can be used.
    We bought Dimplex again because they have always been reliable (no, we donít work for Dimplex nor do we get commission
    We also own the flat next door to ours and have given this advice to our tenants.

    HOW TO USE THE STORAGE HEATERS
    1 - Turn on at the mains switch and leave switched on as it will only use electricity during the cheap(er) rate.
    2 - The INPUT KNOB dictates how much heat it will STORE. It will depend on the weather as to what the setting needs to be. During really cold winter weather it is best to leave it on high all the time.
    3 - Unless extra heat is needed during the day or when coming home after work, make sure the OUTPUT KNOB is set at the minimum. This will cause the heater to store as much heat as possible during the heat storing times overnight on Economy 7. When a boost is needed to release more of the stored heat, turn it to maximum but make sure it is back to minimum afterwards and definitely during the night to stop extra heat being released unnecessarily.

    Dimplex storage heaters are also available with a convector built in for immediate heat, for when the stored heat is not enough or for times of the year when you don't need it on all the time. You then have the best of both worlds with a choice of stored and immediate heat. We have one of those in the living room.
    There is one more important thing to point out, left until last because it may not be available in your area with any of the suppliers (it is not very readily available everywhere unfortunately): it is a great idea to have Economy 10 installed instead of Economy 7. This means the heaters store heat for 10 hours instead of 7, evenly divided during the day and night, in our case 3 hours afternoon, 3 hours evening and 4 hours night. Obviously more expensive with more electricity used (at cheap rate) but definitely warm all day. And you can choose whether or not to actually use all of those hours by turning the input to off or minimum when not needed.

    I know this has been a long story but I hope it has been of some help for you in deciding what to purchase.
    • pnat
    • By pnat 12th Apr 18, 11:27 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    pnat
    Thank you very much for all the responses. Very helpful. Sorry I have more to ask.

    1. Would it be worth 'servicing' old storage heaters to check if there is any part that has broken down over the years by calling an electrician?
    2. I have a very small space (probably not going to be used most of the time) that does not have any storage heating connection (no off peak connection). Would infrared panels work better with small spaces to be used when required or will any panel do the work?
    3. The other thing is if I use the old NSH, what do I buy to fix a do it yourself thermostat? Could you please explain?

    Thank you very much
    Last edited by pnat; 12-04-2018 at 11:41 PM.
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