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  • FIRST POST
    • Supersonos
    • By Supersonos 6th Jan 18, 9:24 AM
    • 76Posts
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    Supersonos
    If a company delivers, are they obliged to collect?
    • #1
    • 6th Jan 18, 9:24 AM
    If a company delivers, are they obliged to collect? 6th Jan 18 at 9:24 AM
    Let's say I order something online that needs specialised delivery - a couple of tonnes of gravel for example.

    The company offers free delivery and turns up with their lorry and its special hydraulic arm to lower the ton bags of gravel onto my driveway.

    Then, for whatever reason, I want to return it (maybe it's the wrong type of gravel or I've ordered too much or something) and the company agrees I can do so to get a refund. Clearly I can't just pop a couple of tonnes of gravel in the post and I don't have the necessary lorry to return it to them.

    Does the trader have some sort of legal obligation to collect the gravel? Or is it up to me to obtain an HGV licence and hire a lorry? Or find some third party with the necessary expertise and tools to return the gravel?
    Last edited by Supersonos; 06-01-2018 at 9:27 AM.
Page 1
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 6th Jan 18, 9:37 AM
    • 20,335 Posts
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    agrinnall
    • #2
    • 6th Jan 18, 9:37 AM
    • #2
    • 6th Jan 18, 9:37 AM
    Check the return T&Cs before ordering would be my suggestion.
    • Supersonos
    • By Supersonos 6th Jan 18, 9:39 AM
    • 76 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    Supersonos
    • #3
    • 6th Jan 18, 9:39 AM
    • #3
    • 6th Jan 18, 9:39 AM
    I'm talking about a legal obligation.

    I know distance selling means you're able to change your mind and return things, and I know if it's faulty the trader needs to cover the cost of returning the goods, but can a company legally deliver something and then leave you to work out how to return it?
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 6th Jan 18, 9:40 AM
    • 5,095 Posts
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    Keep pedalling
    • #4
    • 6th Jan 18, 9:40 AM
    • #4
    • 6th Jan 18, 9:40 AM
    Only if it!!!8217;s their mistake in delivering the wrong type or too much.
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 6th Jan 18, 9:44 AM
    • 3,398 Posts
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    powerful_Rogue
    • #5
    • 6th Jan 18, 9:44 AM
    • #5
    • 6th Jan 18, 9:44 AM
    I'm talking about a legal obligation.

    I know distance selling means you're able to change your mind and return things, and I know if it's faulty the trader needs to cover the cost of returning the goods, but can a company legally deliver something and then leave you to work out how to return it?
    Originally posted by Supersonos
    Check the T&C's in regards to the return delivery.

    As it stands, you can reject (as in you no longer want it. Faulty etc has different rules) the item, however it's up to you to return it at your own cost unless their T&C's are more favourable. You would be able to get the initial delivery cost refunded.
    • Supersonos
    • By Supersonos 6th Jan 18, 9:48 AM
    • 76 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    Supersonos
    • #6
    • 6th Jan 18, 9:48 AM
    • #6
    • 6th Jan 18, 9:48 AM
    Check the T&C's in regards to the return delivery.

    As it stands, you can reject (as in you no longer want it. Faulty etc has different rules) the item, however it's up to you to return it at your own cost unless their T&C's are more favourable. You would be able to get the initial delivery cost refunded.
    Originally posted by powerful_Rogue
    Ok - this is interesting. I wondered if they had to collect the goods (with their special lorry) and then maybe refund me an amount minus the cost of them collecting it. Seems harsh making me work out how to return it when they delivered it.

    The T&Cs simply say I have to pay the return postage. But you'd think that would apply only to things you can post...
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 6th Jan 18, 9:52 AM
    • 11,096 Posts
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    neilmcl
    • #7
    • 6th Jan 18, 9:52 AM
    • #7
    • 6th Jan 18, 9:52 AM
    I'm talking about a legal obligation.

    I know distance selling means you're able to change your mind and return things, and I know if it's faulty the trader needs to cover the cost of returning the goods, but can a company legally deliver something and then leave you to work out how to return it?
    Originally posted by Supersonos
    If it's a change of mind then no, they have no obligation to arrange the collection, even if it was an online purchase. If, however, the goods were not as described, or otherwise don't conform to contract then yes, they do have an obligation to cover the costs of getting the goods back to them.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 6th Jan 18, 9:54 AM
    • 11,096 Posts
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    neilmcl
    • #8
    • 6th Jan 18, 9:54 AM
    • #8
    • 6th Jan 18, 9:54 AM
    Ok - this is interesting. I wondered if they had to collect the goods (with their special lorry) and then maybe refund me an amount minus the cost of them collecting it. Seems harsh making me work out how to return it when they delivered it.

    The T&Cs simply say I have to pay the return postage. But you'd think that would apply only to things you can post...
    Originally posted by Supersonos
    Seems harsh in expecting them to collect something when you've made a mistake or changed your mind.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 6th Jan 18, 2:35 PM
    • 12,433 Posts
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    unholyangel
    • #9
    • 6th Jan 18, 2:35 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Jan 18, 2:35 PM
    Check the T&C's in regards to the return delivery.

    As it stands, you can reject (as in you no longer want it. Faulty etc has different rules) the item, however it's up to you to return it at your own cost unless their T&C's are more favourable. You would be able to get the initial delivery cost refunded.
    Originally posted by powerful_Rogue
    Other way around. The cost of the return falls on the retailer as the default rule unless they have complied with CCRs and provided the necessary information - that they will be responsible for the return costs and if the goods can't normally be returned by post then they also need to advise how much it will cost to return the goods.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • Supersonos
    • By Supersonos 7th Jan 18, 8:28 AM
    • 76 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    Supersonos
    So I made a mistake. The gravel is larger than I expected and didn't look as big in the photos on their website. But it's my fault, I should've double-checked or asked for a sample or something, so I'm happy for me to be out of pocket (although, to check, because it was delivered "free" they can't now charge me for the original costs they incurred delivering it, can they?)

    They're not quibbling the refund and not trying to charge me re-stocking fees etc., but it's like they're holding my refund to ransom. I simply can't work out how to return two tonnes of gravel to some place near Birmingham.

    Clearly Royal Mail isn't an option. I've tried DHL and they said no (obvs). I phoned a few man-and-van people but they don't have the means to get the bags into their vans and think they might not both fit anyway. Ive tried a couple of lorry companies but they said I wasn't a trade customer and they don't do that sort of thing.

    I'm just suprised that a company can sell something online that needs specialised delivery, deliver it to me, but then just refuse to collect it - even for a charge. They're not even saying that they'll collect it next time they're in the area.

    What's the point in laws about distance selling and refunds if sellers can put obstacles in the way of you actually obtaining a refund?

    Other way around. The cost of the return falls on the retailer as the default rule unless they have complied with CCRs and provided the necessary information - that they will be responsible for the return costs and if the goods can't normally be returned by post then they also need to advise how much it will cost to return the goods.
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    Are you saying they should be collecting it? I don't really understand your post.
    Last edited by Supersonos; 07-01-2018 at 8:31 AM.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 7th Jan 18, 10:57 AM
    • 5,095 Posts
    • 5,681 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    So I made a mistake. The gravel is larger than I expected and didn't look as big in the photos on their website. But it's my fault, I should've double-checked or asked for a sample or something, so I'm happy for me to be out of pocket (although, to check, because it was delivered "free" they can't now charge me for the original costs they incurred delivering it, can they?)

    They're not quibbling the refund and not trying to charge me re-stocking fees etc., but it's like they're holding my refund to ransom. I simply can't work out how to return two tonnes of gravel to some place near Birmingham.

    Clearly Royal Mail isn't an option. I've tried DHL and they said no (obvs). I phoned a few man-and-van people but they don't have the means to get the bags into their vans and think they might not both fit anyway. Ive tried a couple of lorry companies but they said I wasn't a trade customer and they don't do that sort of thing.

    I'm just suprised that a company can sell something online that needs specialised delivery, deliver it to me, but then just refuse to collect it - even for a charge. They're not even saying that they'll collect it next time they're in the area.

    What's the point in laws about distance selling and refunds if sellers can put obstacles in the way of you actually obtaining a refund?



    Are you saying they should be collecting it? I don't really understand your post.
    Originally posted by Supersonos
    No they are saying if the company should collect if their T&Cs donít comply with the regs, which is unlikely to be the case.

    Why not advertise the surplus bags on something like Gumtree, I am sure there are plenty of DIYers local to you looking for some cheap gravel.
    • custardy
    • By custardy 7th Jan 18, 11:15 AM
    • 33,550 Posts
    • 28,508 Thanks
    custardy
    So I made a mistake. The gravel is larger than I expected and didn't look as big in the photos on their website. But it's my fault, I should've double-checked or asked for a sample or something, so I'm happy for me to be out of pocket (although, to check, because it was delivered "free" they can't now charge me for the original costs they incurred delivering it, can they?)

    They're not quibbling the refund and not trying to charge me re-stocking fees etc., but it's like they're holding my refund to ransom. I simply can't work out how to return two tonnes of gravel to some place near Birmingham.

    Clearly Royal Mail isn't an option. I've tried DHL and they said no (obvs). I phoned a few man-and-van people but they don't have the means to get the bags into their vans and think they might not both fit anyway. Ive tried a couple of lorry companies but they said I wasn't a trade customer and they don't do that sort of thing.

    I'm just suprised that a company can sell something online that needs specialised delivery, deliver it to me, but then just refuse to collect it - even for a charge. They're not even saying that they'll collect it next time they're in the area.

    What's the point in laws about distance selling and refunds if sellers can put obstacles in the way of you actually obtaining a refund?



    Are you saying they should be collecting it? I don't really understand your post.
    Originally posted by Supersonos
    would you rather a free uplift and restocking fee?
    You made the mistake,not them. So why should they take the hit.
    Worse they could offer a refund if you return the item.
    Count your blessings.
    Think about it,they now have a 'loss' on the original sale
    • camelot1971
    • By camelot1971 7th Jan 18, 11:28 AM
    • 809 Posts
    • 1,208 Thanks
    camelot1971
    There are specialist haulage companies that deliver and collect products like this - they aren't cheap though and as you have found out, a lot only work with the trade.

    Building supplies in bulk are broadly a trade only product and builders merchants aren't obligated to provide a return facility unless it was their mistake. It could be worse - imagine if they had tipped 20 tonnes on your drive! If it was just a couple of tons in bags I don't imagine it was very expensive - if you really can't use it just advertise it on Gumtree for free - someone will come and collect!
    • Supersonos
    • By Supersonos 7th Jan 18, 11:37 AM
    • 76 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    Supersonos
    would you rather a free uplift and restocking fee?
    You made the mistake,not them. So why should they take the hit.
    Worse they could offer a refund if you return the item.
    Count your blessings.
    Think about it,they now have a 'loss' on the original sale
    Originally posted by custardy
    I'm not sure if you've read correctly. They haven't lost anything at all. And I'm not in the least suggesting they should take a hit, I'm fully accepting my mistake.

    But I'm suprised to learn through this thread that they can deliver something that requires specialist delivery, but then refuse to collect it.

    Their T&Cs say that, if the buyer changes their mind, the buyer needs to pay the return postage. That makes sense for a lot of the stuff they sell (gate furniture, gloves, tools etc.) but clearly that doesn't apply to something they have delivered using their staff and their lorry.

    I'm happy to pay for the cost of returning it, but they're not offering to collect it (for a fee) or suggesting a company/service that can.
    Last edited by Supersonos; 07-01-2018 at 11:42 AM.
    • Supersonos
    • By Supersonos 7th Jan 18, 11:40 AM
    • 76 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    Supersonos
    just advertise it on Gumtree for free - someone will come and collect!
    Originally posted by camelot1971
    I suspect this is what I'll end up doing, but I just wanted to find out where I stood legally.

    I just wondered if there was a clause in the distance selling regulations that said the consumer had some sort of protection if the goods to be returned couldn't be sent using standard methods (post, courier etc.).

    It makes a bit of a mockery of having a thing on the product page saying "If you change your mind within 14 days, we'll give you a full refund - no quibbles (buyer pays return postage)."

    They can offer full refunds all day long knowing that almost no-one will be able to actually obtain their refund.
    Last edited by Supersonos; 07-01-2018 at 11:45 AM.
    • JJ Egan
    • By JJ Egan 7th Jan 18, 11:42 AM
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    JJ Egan
    Ask them for a pickup cost is the first step .
    • Supersonos
    • By Supersonos 7th Jan 18, 11:45 AM
    • 76 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    Supersonos
    Ask them for a pickup cost is the first step .
    Originally posted by JJ Egan
    I have - they've said they don't do collections.
    • JJ Egan
    • By JJ Egan 7th Jan 18, 12:49 PM
    • 10,504 Posts
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    JJ Egan
    In that case who did they use to deliver . If an independent carrier try them .
    • Supersonos
    • By Supersonos 7th Jan 18, 1:06 PM
    • 76 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    Supersonos
    In that case who did they use to deliver . If an independent carrier try them .
    Originally posted by JJ Egan
    They delivered. Their branded lorry, their staff (or at least a guy wearing a sweater with their logo).
    • cajef
    • By cajef 7th Jan 18, 1:24 PM
    • 4,769 Posts
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    cajef
    Why would they be obliged to collect, their contract was to supply and deliver the goods you ordered which they have done, if you wish to return anything that is up to you to arrange.
    I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.
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