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  • FIRST POST
    • Tristanito
    • By Tristanito 28th Dec 17, 6:19 PM
    • 20Posts
    • 12Thanks
    Tristanito
    CPM PCN at IAS stage
    • #1
    • 28th Dec 17, 6:19 PM
    CPM PCN at IAS stage 28th Dec 17 at 6:19 PM
    Hi,

    You successfully helped me get a PCN cancelled a few months ago so I'm hoping you can help me again. The situation is different as I dealt with a BPA member last time and this time it's an IPC member (CPM or Car Park Management).

    I followed all the instructions from the start and already appealed (by post as CPM don't have an online process). My appeal got rejected on the basis that my car was parked where it shouldn't have been (in a residential car park for a few minutes) and that they are under no obligation to provide the info I requested. They have images of my vehicle so that's it. It looks like those were taken by an angry resident and sent to them.

    I read that I shouldn't appeal to the IAS and instead complain to the landowner, however all the success stories I've read on the forum are about shops and supermarkets, not properties, and CPM doesn't appear in the long list of parking management companies that have previously agreed to cancel PCNs.

    My question is, should I still contact the landowner? The driver didn't know that he couldn't park there, so I don't think I have a very strong case against them. Also the rejection letter I received mentions an impact on my ability to obtain credit in the future, which is obviously quite scary!

    Thank you for your advice.
Page 1
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 28th Dec 17, 6:30 PM
    • 20,270 Posts
    • 32,007 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #2
    • 28th Dec 17, 6:30 PM
    • #2
    • 28th Dec 17, 6:30 PM
    Also the rejection letter I received mentions an impact on my ability to obtain credit in the future, which is obviously quite scary!
    Don’t believe what that says. The only way credit rating is affected is if it goes to court, you lose, costs are awarded against you and you fail/refuse to pay them within the timescale directed by the judge. Then the PPC can apply for the enforcement and your credit file is annotated. All within your ultimate control.

    Not much more you can do now, but come back if the PPC (or their solicitors - likely Gladstones) issue a LBC or MCOL proceedings. The forum can help with dealing with these (see the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2 if you want to do some advance reading).
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 28th Dec 17, 8:42 PM
    • 9,346 Posts
    • 12,300 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #3
    • 28th Dec 17, 8:42 PM
    • #3
    • 28th Dec 17, 8:42 PM
    CPM are parking scammers/cowboys.

    IPC is currently the biggest UK scam, invented by
    the incompetent Gladstones Solicitors.

    No point in wasting your time with scammers

    Just wait to see how this scam develops

    Probably idiotic debt collectors trying to scam you
    WHICH YOU IGNORE

    Just see what CPM do, it will probably be via the
    very incompetent Gladstones Solicitors who are a joke

    Come back here for more help

    Some bed time reading about the joke CPM
    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=cpm
    Last edited by beamerguy; 28-12-2017 at 8:47 PM.
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Tristanito
    • By Tristanito 11th May 18, 7:49 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Tristanito
    • #4
    • 11th May 18, 7:49 PM
    • #4
    • 11th May 18, 7:49 PM
    Hi all,
    So this is it, first letter from Gladstones informing me that if I do not pay within 14 days, I need to keep their client and their agents (DRP) updated as to my current address to "ensure that my ability to defend such action is protected".
    Your help and advice with this matter would be as always much appreciated!
    • Redx
    • By Redx 11th May 18, 8:01 PM
    • 19,963 Posts
    • 25,278 Thanks
    Redx
    • #5
    • 11th May 18, 8:01 PM
    • #5
    • 11th May 18, 8:01 PM
    IGNORE drp but definitely ensure that these people have a current serviceable address

    come back if you get a formal LBC or an MCOL

    see post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread for details

    post #4 deals with debt collector letters

    the PPC has 6 years to try a court claim
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th May 18, 8:44 PM
    • 64,101 Posts
    • 76,680 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 11th May 18, 8:44 PM
    • #6
    • 11th May 18, 8:44 PM
    first letter from Gladstones informing me that if I do not pay within 14 days, I need to keep their client and their agents (DRP) updated as to my current address to "ensure that my ability to defend such action is protected".
    So, now they are trying to paint a picture to make it the consumer's fault if they file claims to old addresses. Despicable industry and shameful robo-claim solicitors.

    I hope they are proud of how they use their law degrees.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 11-05-2018 at 9:27 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Tristanito
    • By Tristanito 12th May 18, 12:32 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Tristanito
    • #7
    • 12th May 18, 12:32 PM
    • #7
    • 12th May 18, 12:32 PM
    IGNORE drp but definitely ensure that these people have a current serviceable address
    Originally posted by Redx
    So I'm assuming there's no action required until the day we move to a new address? Or do I still need to confirm my current address to DRP now?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th May 18, 1:48 PM
    • 10,728 Posts
    • 11,151 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #8
    • 12th May 18, 1:48 PM
    • #8
    • 12th May 18, 1:48 PM
    Just tell them when you move.
    .
    • Tristanito
    • By Tristanito 9th Nov 18, 7:16 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Tristanito
    • #9
    • 9th Nov 18, 7:16 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Nov 18, 7:16 PM
    Hi all,
    So I've ignored quite a few threatening letters from Gladstones and a new one came tonight, from the County Court Business Centre, entitled "Claim Form" (8 pages that they want me to fill in), asking me to pay the amount + interest.
    Should I just continue to ignore?
    Thanks
    • waamo
    • By waamo 9th Nov 18, 7:46 PM
    • 4,740 Posts
    • 6,123 Thanks
    waamo
    No do not ignore it. That sounds like a genuine claim form. You need to start formulating a defence as they are suing you.
    This space for hire.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 9th Nov 18, 8:18 PM
    • 20,270 Posts
    • 32,007 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2 for everything you want to know, and need to do, to fight this through the courts.

    Ignoring it will result in an automatic default judgment against you, now it's in the court system. Credit trashing potential.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 9th Nov 18, 8:31 PM
    • 9,346 Posts
    • 12,300 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Hi all,
    So I've ignored quite a few threatening letters from Gladstones and a new one came tonight, from the County Court Business Centre, entitled "Claim Form" (8 pages that they want me to fill in), asking me to pay the amount + interest.
    Should I just continue to ignore?
    Thanks
    Originally posted by Tristanito
    Gladstones flexing their tiny muscles again.

    You cannot ignore but you can rebut this.

    Gladstones must prove to you their claim, that is pictures etc and proof of their claim.

    Gladstones are adding a fake 60 so have they done this to you
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 10th Nov 18, 12:05 AM
    • 10,728 Posts
    • 11,151 Thanks
    KeithP
    Hi all,
    So I've ignored quite a few threatening letters from Gladstones and a new one came tonight, from the County Court Business Centre, entitled "Claim Form" (8 pages that they want me to fill in), asking me to pay the amount + interest.
    Originally posted by Tristanito
    What is the Issue Date on your Claim Form?
    .
    • Tristanito
    • By Tristanito 11th Nov 18, 12:14 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Tristanito
    Hi all,

    I'm afraid to say that I did receive a letter before claim a few weeks ago and didn't realise what it was so ignored it as all the previous letters from Glastones... My bad really.
    The Claim Form I now received has an issue date of 8th November. The total amount is now 246.48 (171.48 amount claimed, 25 court fee and 50 legal costs).
    What do you suggest I do now? Have I still got chances to win this case and is it still worth preparing a defence? They have pictures of my vehicle. It was only parked there for a few minutes.
    Thanks for help.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 11th Nov 18, 12:19 PM
    • 37,791 Posts
    • 84,847 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    You have a very good chance of winning this.

    You must acknowledge the claim and state you will defend, but do not put anything in the defence box. Not even a full stop.

    Start by reading the step by step guide to court from post 2 of the NEWBIES.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 11th Nov 18, 1:42 PM
    • 10,728 Posts
    • 11,151 Thanks
    KeithP
    The Claim Form I now received has an issue date of 8th November.
    Originally posted by Tristanito
    With a Claim Issue Date of 8th November, you have until Tuesday 27th November to do the Acknowledgement of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. To do the AoS, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox link from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

    Having done the AoS, you then have until 4pm on Tuesday 11th December 2018 to file your Defence.

    A whole month away. Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence, but don't leave it to the very last minute.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as described here:

    1) Print your Defence.
    2) Sign it and date it.
    3) Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    4) Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    5) Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    6) Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
    7) Wait for your Directions Questionnaire and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES thread to find out exactly what to do with it.
    .
    • Tristanito
    • By Tristanito 11th Nov 18, 8:23 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Tristanito
    Thank you all, I just submitted my AoS.

    Regarding the defence, I've read all the examples listed in the Newbies thread, including the one about "Irrelevant Defences and How To Avoid Them" (e.g. the one about not seeing the signs).

    In this particular case, my vehicle was parked for a few minutes on a private parking (there were signs, although very small and low) and someone (perhaps a resident) took some pictures and sent it to CPM.

    I previously managed to avoid a parking fine by claiming that the minimum grace period of 10 mins wasn't allowed by the parking company. Is this something that applies to private parkings? The few minutes the car was parked there simply allowed the driver to get off and read the tiny signs before choosing to exit the car park.
    • Tristanito
    • By Tristanito 12th Nov 18, 9:44 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Tristanito
    Here's my first attempt at a defence. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks!

    IN THE COUNTY COURT

    CLAIM No: xxxxxxxxxx

    BETWEEN:

    UK CAR PARK MANAGEMENT LTD (Claimant)

    -and-

    xxxxxxxxxxxx (Defendant)

    ________________________________________
    DEFENCE
    ________________________________________

    1. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.

    2. The facts are that the vehicle, registration XXXX, of which the Defendant is the registered keeper, was parked on XX/XX/XX at XX.XX (time) on a private land (XXXX address).

    3. The Particulars of Claim state that the Defendant XXXX was driving the vehicle and/or is the keeper of the vehicle XXXX. These assertions indicate that the Claimant has failed to identify a Cause of Action, and is simply offering a menu of choices. As such, the Claim fails to comply with Civil Procedure Rule 16.4, or with Civil Practice Direction 16, paras. 7.3 to 7.5.

    4. The Claimant's signage is displayed at the entrance of the car park, below the driver's eye level and therefore cannot be read from a passing vehicle. The terms on the Claimant's signage are also displayed in a font which is too small to be read from a passing vehicle, and is in such a position that anyone attempting to read the tiny font would be unable to do so easily. It is, therefore, denied that the Claimant's signage is capable of creating a legally binding contract. In order to read those signs, one must park and exit the vehicle.

    5. When responding to the Defendant's PCN appeal, the Claimant stated that "It is the driver's responsibility when leaving their vehicle unattended to observe the area and check parking is permitted. There is clear signage placed throughout the parking areas stating that the land is private property and restrictions apply". The Defendant confirms that the driver parked the car, left the vehicle to check the signage, then returned to the vehicle and exited the car park.

    6. The minimum grace period was not allowed by the Claimant. The Defendant confirms that the driver was only parked in the car park for a couple of minute, the time necessary to come out of the car and to check the signage. The British Parking Association Code of Practice 13.1 – 13.4 states:

    13 Grace periods
    13.1 Your approach to parking management must allow a driver who enters your car park but decides not to park, to leave the car park within a reasonable period without having their vehicle issued with a parking charge notice.
    13.2 You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’ in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If the driver is on your land without permission you should still allow them a grace period to read your signs and leave before you take enforcement action.
    13.3 You should be prepared to tell us the specific grace period at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is.
    13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes.

    The Defendant's vehicle was in and out of the car park within a few minutes.

    7. The Claimant is put to strict proof that it has sufficient proprietary interest in the land, or that it has the necessary authorisation from the landowner to issue parking charge notices, and to pursue payment by means of litigation. When asked to provide this information following the Defendant's PCN appeal, the Claimant stated that it was under no obligation to provide the requested information and only stated that it held a legal contract that authorised it to monitor the parking area on behalf of the landowner.

    8. The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, at Section 4(5) states that the maximum sum that may be recovered from the keeper is the charge stated on the Notice to Keeper, in this case 100. The claim includes an additional 60, for which no calculation or explanation is given, other than "time spent and resource facilitating the recovery of the charge". It therefore appears to be an attempt at double recovery.

    9. The Claimant's aggressive business practice over the past year, and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using the Defendant's car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to the Defendant.

    10. In summary, it is the Defendant's position that the claim has no real prospect of success. Accordingly, the Court is invited to dismiss the claim in its entirety.

    I believe the facts contained in this Defence are true.

    Name
    Signature
    Date
    • Tristanito
    • By Tristanito 16th Nov 18, 11:01 AM
    • 20 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Tristanito
    Hi all,

    Just checking if you've had a chance to review my defence?

    Thanks for your help!
    • Castle
    • By Castle 16th Nov 18, 11:34 AM
    • 2,024 Posts
    • 2,729 Thanks
    Castle
    UKCPM are in the IPC, not the BPA, so the 10 minutes grace periods won't apply. The IPC simply say in section 15 "Sufficient time must be allowed":-
    https://theipc.info/resources/brandings/brandmedia_2_Code-of-Practice.pdf

    If you haven't already done so, send UKCPM a SAR to include copies of all the information they hold on you and your vehicle; (which will include the Operative's notes and the source of the information).
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