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Incorrect signage?

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  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 132,253 Forumite
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    Yes but POPLA won't look at the small print, ironically. They will say the signs were clear. Why wouldn't the club cancel the PCN then, do they want to lose members? Or was the driver not attending the social club?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • scamdodger
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    The more I tell, the more hopeless it gets! No, the driver was not attending the club. It was due to an engine issue and the driver was unable to stop nearby, so used the car park. I tried my best to convince the club as I'm sure it will upset more people in the long run.
    But anyway, I now realise it's too late to get the 'mugs discount', so may as well go for POPLA.
  • nosferatu1001
    nosferatu1001 Posts: 12,961 Forumite
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    Oh why didn’t you say that before?
    Engine trouble so it wasn’t parked, it was awaiting recovery? What actually happened? See why you really can’t just drop feed info, just tell us the whole damned story already.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 132,253 Forumite
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    Show us your POPLA appeal and prove the breakdown so POPLA can't ignore it, even if it's just someone else in the family (not the driver) providing a witness statement confirming that the driver stopped the car there because it broke down...the issue was (blah blah) and the vehicle was not parked but broken down, never left unattended and was then moved when xxxxx was repaired (or it was towed, or whatever).
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
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  • Kirchenmaus
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    And it's a "no parking" sign, of course.

    --Kirchenmaus
  • scamdodger
    scamdodger Posts: 47 Forumite
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    edited 25 January 2018 at 5:55PM
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    Thanks for everyones help so far. I will give an update, but also summarise and add more information which may paint a clearer picture;

    I received the PCN as the RK. I was not the driver.
    The Parking Eye notice showed vehicle entering/leaving the car park via ANPR camera.
    The car park is a social club and signage indicates that members and visitors should input their registration number into a terminal in the club house.
    The young driver used the car park because the check engine light came on in the vehicle and they were worried something serious may happen. There was no convenient parking available on the nearby street. They then went off on foot for about 1 hour to seek asssistance, later removing the car when they had been reassured that it wasn't that critical. (In fact the driver didn't know the car had been to the garage previously, which had just reset the light and told me to let them know if it caused more trouble). Later, I even explained to and asked the garage if they would provide a receipt as evidence, but they refused because the job was done at no charge!
    In a slightly distressed state the driver didn't spot or acknowledge the signs. (In any case, I'm not sure if there would have been an opportunity to register the car, as the club was not open until 30 minutes after the driver first parked). I did appeal to the club initially, giving the circumstances, but they refused to get the PCN cancelled as the driver is not a member.

    However, I am a bit reluctant to pursue this to the bitter end as I understand that POPLA aren't interested in 'extenuating circumstances' as described above. The car park has had new signs put up all around (see previous pictures) and I feel it may be unlikely that PE can be successfully challenged on this relatively new installation. As stated before, I don't know if there is any mileage in landowner permission/chain of authority, there is nothing on the land registry to indicate who that is.

    So basically it comes to this; I have, as RK, 14 days to cough up £60, much to my utter disgust, or I ask for a POPLA code to contest it. I'm not confident on the evidence I have that I would win the appeal and then the cost would go up to £100. Much that I admire people who go all the way, I don't relish the considerable time and hassle required to defend myself should it come to court action with PE.

    As ever, I am grateful for your comments.
  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 58,319 Forumite
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    edited 25 January 2018 at 6:02PM
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    scamdodger wrote: »

    The signs are forbidding (no offer to park) and they don't say what the ANPR data will be used for.

    Personally I would go for a PoPLA appeal. The result isn't binding on the motorist.
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  • muleskinner
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    Well, technically I believe that's a 'forbidding' notice.

    There is no contract to park for you, as a non-member. Therefore it's an issue of trespass rather than breach and as such you can only be sued for damages. Even if there was a contract the act of entering into it (parking) would in itself constitute a breach, therefore making it impossible to perform.

    See PCM vs Bull, Horizon vs Guildford etc.

    These are only district level cases though, so it's up to the judge, and they don't always seem to rule in favour of the motorist on that argument.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 132,253 Forumite
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    edited 25 January 2018 at 8:20PM
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    I'm folding I think.

    No, you aren't. No-one here does at POPLA stage! You are quietly panicking but this can be beaten.

    In a slightly distressed state the driver didn't spot or acknowledge the signs.

    Like Vine v Waltham Forest, then (case law). She won. Signs not seen due to distress, are not a contract made/agreed.

    So basically it comes to this; I have, as RK, 14 days to cough up £60, much to my utter disgust, or I ask for a POPLA code to contest it.
    It always comes down to that! Everyone here is in the same boat and still win 99% of the time.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • scamdodger
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    Thanks for the responses, which I do appreciate.
    Should I reluctantly fork out the £60, or appeal with POPLA?
    If I lose the POPLA apppeal, I presume I will then have to pay £100, or embark on the lengthy process that could lead to court action (which I don't want to do).
    I feel that unless anyone can give me reasonable hope of winning the POPLA appeal with the evidence I have outlined, I am inclined to pay the £60 to make it go away.
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