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  • FIRST POST
    • HamburgerHilll
    • By HamburgerHilll 16th Nov 17, 3:25 PM
    • 16Posts
    • 21Thanks
    HamburgerHilll
    Previous landlord/county court issues
    • #1
    • 16th Nov 17, 3:25 PM
    Previous landlord/county court issues 16th Nov 17 at 3:25 PM
    Hi there,

    Apologies for the very long post but I'm really confused as to how something I believed was quite simple has turned into a nightmare...

    We moved out of our previous rented home in July 2017. At the time we left the landlord owed us 1600 which was due to an overpayment of rent during the tenancy which he accepted and agreed to repay. In addition our deposit (around 2400) is held by the DPS.

    On leaving the inventory (clerk supplied by the original letting agent) listed a few items that we should pay for with the majority being fair wear and tear. A couple weeks later we received a very long email from the agent on behalf of the landlord stating that they were challenging the inventory as incorrect and claiming for thousands of pounds worth of damage far in excess of our deposit. They refused to agree to the ADR service with the Deposit Protection Scheme so for now that money remains in limbo (although we did agree to the items on the original inventory clerks report being paid to them)

    Now with all that in the background we sent a simple letter before action to the landlord for the return of the rent overpayment - no response from Landlord. So we launched a Money Claim online back in July. The landlord then responded with a counter claim for over 4000 (basically the same information as in the letter described above) and the court then requested that he provide a list of alleged defects to the property (which he still hasn't save for the original letters/emails).

    I wrote back to the court and explained this is not a deposit issue but simply a case of a rent over payment that has not been repaid and then heard nothing despite calling and emailing the court for weeks. Finally today I have received a Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track although this document suggests mediation there is a date for a hearing (20th February 2018) but only if I pay a trial fee of 170 before the 23rd January.

    My concern is that in my mind the overpayment/money owed by the landlord is entirely separate to the issue of our deposit/alleged damage to the property but the court doesn't seem to recognise this. If I do proceed with court/trial is it possible that I will end up with a huge bill if the Landlord/Agent manage to convince a judge of that?
Page 1
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 16th Nov 17, 3:34 PM
    • 5,488 Posts
    • 11,387 Thanks
    marliepanda
    • #2
    • 16th Nov 17, 3:34 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Nov 17, 3:34 PM
    Hi there,

    Apologies for the very long post but I'm really confused as to how something I believed was quite simple has turned into a nightmare...

    We moved out of our previous rented home in July 2017. At the time we left the landlord owed us 1600 which was due to an overpayment of rent during the tenancy which he accepted and agreed to repay. In addition our deposit (around 2400) is held by the DPS.

    On leaving the inventory (clerk supplied by the original letting agent) listed a few items that we should pay for with the majority being fair wear and tear. A couple weeks later we received a very long email from the agent on behalf of the landlord stating that they were challenging the inventory as incorrect and claiming for thousands of pounds worth of damage far in excess of our deposit. They refused to agree to the ADR service with the Deposit Protection Scheme so for now that money remains in limbo (although we did agree to the items on the original inventory clerks report being paid to them)

    Now with all that in the background we sent a simple letter before action to the landlord for the return of the rent overpayment - no response from Landlord. So we launched a Money Claim online back in July. The landlord then responded with a counter claim for over 4000 (basically the same information as in the letter described above) and the court then requested that he provide a list of alleged defects to the property (which he still hasn't save for the original letters/emails).

    I wrote back to the court and explained this is not a deposit issue but simply a case of a rent over payment that has not been repaid and then heard nothing despite calling and emailing the court for weeks. Finally today I have received a Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track although this document suggests mediation there is a date for a hearing (20th February 2018) but only if I pay a trial fee of 170 before the 23rd January.

    My concern is that in my mind the overpayment/money owed by the landlord is entirely separate to the issue of our deposit/alleged damage to the property but the court doesn't seem to recognise this. If I do proceed with court/trial is it possible that I will end up with a huge bill if the Landlord/Agent manage to convince a judge of that?
    Originally posted by HamburgerHilll
    How much is your claim with the court for, just your rent over payment of 1600? Why didnt you claim for the whole amount if he is not using the ADR?

    Is the landlord claiming he isnt returning your rent payments as you owe him that much in all of the damage?

    That is what the court will decide. In your shoes I'd be starting a claim for the full 4000.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 16th Nov 17, 3:38 PM
    • 2,970 Posts
    • 2,936 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #3
    • 16th Nov 17, 3:38 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Nov 17, 3:38 PM
    The short answer is yes its POSSIBLE, but UNLIKELY.


    The court wont make him pay you 1600, if you owe him 3000 for damages, that's fairly obvious.
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 16th Nov 17, 4:28 PM
    • 1,210 Posts
    • 838 Thanks
    saajan_12
    • #4
    • 16th Nov 17, 4:28 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Nov 17, 4:28 PM
    Your claim is just you saying *this is money the defendant owes me*.
    The LL's counterclaim just means *this is money the claimant owes me*. As the two parties are the same, the are handled together, but they don't have to be related.

    Part of that mediation / hearing will be for the rent overpayment (which should be straightforward). Part will be for the damages the LL claims (which requires evidence). You can agree something at the mediation in relation to the claim and the counterclaim, or the court will decide each claim and then award the NET amount to be paid.

    So, don't worry about whether the claim & counter are linked, just focus on your evidence for your claim (proof you overpaid, LL's confirmation that he will retur) and your defence for the LL's counterclaim (your photos, inventory proving you didn't damage).

    The only thing to contact the court about would be whether you can add the deposit return to your claim or file another claim. Simply put, you should get the rent overpayment + full deposit. LL should get whatever of the damages you agree to / he can prove. The judge should award the NET payment.
    • HamburgerHilll
    • By HamburgerHilll 12th Jan 18, 11:52 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    HamburgerHilll
    • #5
    • 12th Jan 18, 11:52 AM
    • #5
    • 12th Jan 18, 11:52 AM
    Thanks for the replies above - I have been calling the court all week without response to try and add the deposit return to the claim as well. Is there any way I can do this online as it seems impossible to speak to a real human being?
    • HamburgerHilll
    • By HamburgerHilll 28th Feb 18, 4:40 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    HamburgerHilll
    • #6
    • 28th Feb 18, 4:40 PM
    • #6
    • 28th Feb 18, 4:40 PM
    Just to provide a quick update to this thread...

    I wasn't able to get hold of anyone at the court before the trial date to advise me about the deposit return question so attended court in person a week or so ago. The landlord arrived with 3 'witnesses' in tow none of which I had been informed about. He also claimed to have not read the court paperwork which directed him to supply me with a copy of details of his 'counter-claim'.

    After listening to evidence the judge awarded me the money and also directed the DPS to return my deposit so pretty much a good result all-round.

    Thanks to those who replied with advice on here - I am very grateful.
    • Annie35
    • By Annie35 28th Feb 18, 6:02 PM
    • 215 Posts
    • 184 Thanks
    Annie35
    • #7
    • 28th Feb 18, 6:02 PM
    • #7
    • 28th Feb 18, 6:02 PM
    Well done Hamburger
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 1st Mar 18, 10:21 AM
    • 2,970 Posts
    • 2,936 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #8
    • 1st Mar 18, 10:21 AM
    • #8
    • 1st Mar 18, 10:21 AM
    Just to provide a quick update to this thread...

    I wasn't able to get hold of anyone at the court before the trial date to advise me about the deposit return question so attended court in person a week or so ago. The landlord arrived with 3 'witnesses' in tow none of which I had been informed about. He also claimed to have not read the court paperwork which directed him to supply me with a copy of details of his 'counter-claim'.

    After listening to evidence the judge awarded me the money and also directed the DPS to return my deposit so pretty much a good result all-round.

    Thanks to those who replied with advice on here - I am very grateful.
    Originally posted by HamburgerHilll
    This is why you won so easily. People really do need to follow court directions.
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 1st Mar 18, 10:31 AM
    • 2,926 Posts
    • 5,928 Thanks
    Smodlet
    • #9
    • 1st Mar 18, 10:31 AM
    • #9
    • 1st Mar 18, 10:31 AM
    Thank you, HamburgerHill, for updating your thread. Too often people do not provide the end of the story which I guess is understandable if it did not go their way... Great result, well done you.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 1st Mar 18, 10:41 AM
    • 9,457 Posts
    • 12,677 Thanks
    theartfullodger
    Well done Hamburger!

    Stupid (in several ways ..) landlord! But there is no requirement to even have 1/2 a brain or any sense to be a landlord:
    • martindow
    • By martindow 1st Mar 18, 11:25 AM
    • 7,528 Posts
    • 4,267 Thanks
    martindow

    After listening to evidence the judge awarded me the money and also directed the DPS to return my deposit so pretty much a good result all-round.

    Thanks to those who replied with advice on here - I am very grateful.
    Originally posted by HamburgerHilll
    Good news.

    Have you actually been paid the money? Unfortunately getting a judgement can be just the start of the process.

    If his payment is not forthcoming come back here and people will advise on what you should do next.
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 1st Mar 18, 12:16 PM
    • 2,926 Posts
    • 5,928 Thanks
    Smodlet
    Well done Hamburger!

    Stupid (in several ways ..) landlord! But there is no requirement to even have 1/2 a brain or any sense to be a landlord:
    Originally posted by theartfullodger

    Would they were all like you and Mossfarr, artful. <sighs>

    ETA: And the incomparable G_M, of course! Where was my half a brain?
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • diggingdude
    • By diggingdude 1st Mar 18, 12:34 PM
    • 123 Posts
    • 114 Thanks
    diggingdude
    well done, hate landlords who like to steal tenants money
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