Care Home Fees

Millie1982 · 9 July 2017 at 11:57AM

Hi there,

I really need some advice regarding what a local council has the right to where my dad's money is concerned.

Like many, my dad failed to safe-guard the house and put it in my name some years ago, he wrote a Will leaving it to me, but of course it doesn't work like that.

My dad now has dementia; the house was sold to pay for his care home fees. As I understand it, when a person's funds / assets drop to £14,250 they are entitled to keep what is left (including the pension pot?) - So with this in mind, I transferred the (£14,250) out dad's account (I am Lasting Power of Attorney) and in to one of my accounts (one which I don't actually use), knowing full well that debits made by the council from my dad's account would continue beyond that point.
The council decided to have me investigated due to the stopped payments.
Long story short, the OPG (Officer of the Public Guardian) investigating me found that my dad's money was intact and that I haven't been on spending sprees or abused it in any way. However, after almost a year of not paying any care fees on my dad's behalf, the council are now saying (based on their calculations of dad's assets are :-
Please shed some light if the council are right in this matter to consider the following :
1) dad’s funeral plan an 'asset' (£2,500)
2) UNCLAIMED Attendance Allowance
3) At what point do the council step in and cover dad’s care fees (if not at £14250)
4) Any money in dad’s account now has accrued over the last 12 months and is his pension – How much of his monthly income are they entitled to? – I read that they shouldn’t be touching his pension

Any advice would be welcomed!
M

elsien · 9 July 2017 at 12:01PM

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/home-and-care/care-homes/paying-for-permanent-residential-care/

Kim_13 · 9 July 2017 at 12:20PM

Millie1982 wrote: »

Hi there,

I really need some advice regarding what a local council has the right to where my dad's money is concerned.

Like many, my dad failed to safe-guard the house and put it in my name some years ago, he wrote a Will leaving it to me, but of course it doesn't work like that.

My dad now has dementia; the house was sold to pay for his care home fees. As I understand it, when a person's funds / assets drop to £14,250 they are entitled to keep what is left (including the pension pot?) - So with this in mind, I transferred the (£14,250) out dad's account (I am Lasting Power of Attorney) and in to one of my accounts (one which I don't actually use), knowing full well that debits made by the council from my dad's account would continue beyond that point.
The council decided to have me investigated due to the stopped payments.
Long story short, the OPG (Officer of the Public Guardian) investigating me found that my dad's money was intact and that I haven't been on spending sprees or abused it in any way. However, after almost a year of not paying any care fees on my dad's behalf, the council are now saying (based on their calculations of dad's assets are :-
Please shed some light if the council are right in this matter to consider the following :
1) dad’s funeral plan an 'asset' (£2,500)
2) UNCLAIMED Attendance Allowance
3) At what point do the council step in and cover dad’s care fees (if not at £14250)
4) Any money in dad’s account now has accrued over the last 12 months and is his pension – How much of his monthly income are they entitled to? – I read that they shouldn’t be touching his pension

Any advice would be welcomed!
M

Is Dad in England? A resident is only entitled to keep £24.90 per week of their income if they are funded by the council. There are a few exceptions like the mobility component of DLA/PIP, which the resident gets to keep on top of the £24.90.

Between £23,250 and £14,250 the council will part fund his care, but they will reduce their contribution by £1 per week for every £250 your dad has above the £14,250.

My Auntie is a funded resident and the council will treat anything they deem unclaimed as if the resident has it. Auntie has a private pension (total pot circa 3k) which she hasn't claimed (she now seems to be seeing it as more of a funeral plan) and they assume a weekly income from it. This is despite the fact that she would still be under the limit for full support if the whole amount was sitting in her bank account.

The figures are slightly different for the rest of the UK.

xylophone · 9 July 2017 at 12:58PM

So with this in mind, I transferred the (£14,250) out dad's account (I am Lasting Power of Attorney) and in to one of my accounts (one which I don't actually use),

You should not have done this and I am surprised that the OPG didn't query your action.

You could have opened a savings account in your father's name and moved the money into that.

I don't see how the funeral plan can be regarded as an asset.

Withe regard to AA see http://hoop.eac.org.uk/downloads/kbase/2050.pdf

And read link in post 2 above.

https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/info/20032/legal_and_financial/848/what_is_nhs_continuing_healthcare

xylophone · 9 July 2017 at 1:02PM

Like many, my dad failed to safe-guard the house and put it in my name some years ago

If he had done this, it might have been regarded as deliberate deprivation of assets to secure or increase means tested benefits.

http://www.payingforcare.org/deprivation-of-assets

Linton · 9 July 2017 at 2:20PM

Millie1982 wrote: »

Hi there,

My dad now has dementia; the house was sold to pay for his care home fees. As I understand it, when a person's funds / assets drop to £14,250 they are entitled to keep what is left (including the pension pot?) - So with this in mind, I transferred the (£14,250) out dad's account (I am Lasting Power of Attorney) and in to one of my accounts (one which I don't actually use), knowing full well that debits made by the council from my dad's account would continue beyond that point.
The council decided to have me investigated due to the stopped payments.
Long story short, the OPG (Officer of the Public Guardian) investigating me found that my dad's money was intact and that I haven't been on spending sprees or abused it in any way. However, after almost a year of not paying any care fees on my dad's behalf, the council are now saying (based on their calculations of dad's assets are :-
Please shed some light if the council are right in this matter to consider the following :
1) dad’s funeral plan an 'asset' (£2,500)
2) UNCLAIMED Attendance Allowance
3) At what point do the council step in and cover dad’s care fees (if not at £14250)
4) Any money in dad’s account now has accrued over the last 12 months and is his pension – How much of his monthly income are they entitled to? – I read that they shouldn’t be touching his pension

Any advice would be welcomed!
M

Hiding the £14250 was very foolish. I would be suprised and disapppointed if the OPG didnt come down on you hard. How could squirreling away some of your father's money into one of your personal accounts be meeting your legal duty to act in his best interests rather than yours? If not failing in your duty as an attorney perhaps it could be seen as attempted fraud.

When you are thinking of doing anything with your father's money you should first ask yourself "How does father benefit? If there isnt an obvious simple answer, dont do it.

As regards your questions. It seems to me...
I cant see the funeral plan as an asset.
Any unclaimed attendance allowance should be claimed on his behalf and paid to the council or care home. After all they are providing the "attendance".
His pension income should be taken into account. The protection of the pension relates to pension capital which cant be accessed because for example he has yet to reach his pension age.,

ChesterDog · 9 July 2017 at 5:41PM

Gosh yes.

I have been in a similar position twice.

You can't do (or appear to do) anything as an attorney which cannot easily be shown to be squeaky clean and entirely for your father's benefit.

Zanderman · 9 July 2017 at 6:42PM

Agree with most of the comments above. Sorry if this isn't the help you wanted!

Hiding the £14k is a blatant misuse of LPA powers - and you should declare it soon as if it is found by other means you could be in trouble. LPA only allows you to act in your father's interests and hiding his money when he's in care isn't in his interest, it's only in yours.

Funeral plans aren't an asset, you should claim attendance allowance and use it towards the care, and yes of course his pension is relevant and will be used to pay for care. It's his income (what else do you think it's for?).

veryintrigued · 9 July 2017 at 7:08PM

Do OPGs read these forums.....?

Keep_pedalling · 10 July 2017 at 12:18AM

The correct procedure should have been to request a financial review when savings were approaching £23,250. This would have stopped him being fully self funded at the correct time. The LA can't tell the savings have been run found to that level unless you tell them

You really should also have applied for attendance allowance as soon as he was on the point of needing care. Although not a lot it would have helped reduce the hit on savings a little bit.

As far as I know you can't back claim AA, so they can't claim that or the funeral plan. What he should be paying is virtually all his income less a small allowance, plus £1 a week for each £250 he has saved between £14,250 and £23,250. It sounds like they have been unable to collect any of that because you failed to inform them of his change in circumstances and we're claiming more than he had left in his account, so he does owe a good amount of unpaid fees from his pension income plus back payment of the £1 per week per £250.

You need to hold your hands up to the LA and say you fowlled up big time, and do a complete review of his current finances and settle any amount truely owed.

You now need

Millie1982 · 11 July 2017 at 8:11AM

Hiding the £14,250? You clearly misunderstood. Yes, I moved it INITIALLY to one of my accounts, then when I finally got to England (I live abroad) I was able to open another account at my dad's branch in his name (I had to go in with the original LPA even though they have a copy at the bank to do so), I wasn't able to do it online,it had to be in person.

I'm guessing you don't know how hard it is to make contact with the 'right' person to speak to when your dad is fully funded and capable of making payments? So yes, I moved dad's money knowing full well, that once they thought his funds had dried up, someone would find the time to speak to me and I would eventually get a response, and hopefully some help me with my dad's situation. So, while you're quick to call me a thief and accuse me of 'squirreling', you know nothing of my struggle - I haven't touched ANY of my dad's money (I clearly stated that the OPG found that everthing was accounted for - if this was not the case, I wouldn't be LPA anymore, would I??
I came back to the UK from previously living abroad because on a visit I noticed my dad couldn't read his watch, he taught me how to tell the time! I was 30 years old, no family, just dad and I. Social Services did NOTHING but pass the buck!I could not pin anyone down for answers / information - hence why I didn't initially claim Attendance Allowanc - because I didn't now what it was, how would I if no one was speaking to me or giving me necessary info! Would I have moved the £14,250 had someone reached out? No! Did I want the responsibility of being LPA? No!! But I did it because there was NO ONE ELSE!
So the next time someone on here asks for help / advice, remember, be nice! everyone is fighting their OWN battle, something you know NOTHING about!

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