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Pay and display patrolled car parks
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Kat_2017
Posts: 15 Forumite
Hi everyone,
I'm a little bit confused about how these car parks work-I'm talking about the ones that are pay and display and are also the licence plate recognition type. It seems if you get a parking charge it is based solely on the licence plate recognition and NOT on the pay and display ticket. Does this not render the whole pay and DISPLAY part pointless? Why would a car park require a driver to display their ticket if they are going to send out charges solely on licence plates and not even look at the displayed ticket at the time? Once the driver has paid and entered their licence plate number, it seems they could eat their ticket since the calculation of payment and stay will be based solely on how much was paid (licence plate and payment recorded on machine) and how long the camera says the car was parked for. This is in contradiction to the terms of pay and display surely?
As a driver, if these are the terms of the car park do you not reasonably expect it to be patrolled and to be given a fine on the actual day if you have not paid/overstayed? Isn't that the point in pay and display? It seems in fact the car park is not patrolled otherwise the driver could've expected a big "fine" on their windscreen.
Surely if you leave a car park having followed the instructions and not received a fine, you can assume that you did not breach any terms and conditions. The company is surely then wholly unreasonable to issue a fine through the post days later-especially if the signs state the car park IS patrolled and failure to pay and display will result in a fine . The driver will most likely have discarded the ticket by the time the charge comes through and therefore would have NO proof to dispute the charge.
Additionally, signs state that cameras are recording number plates and length of stay but not the reason WHY (ie to send a charge to the keeper later). Therefore the driver can only assume a charge would happen on the day as they would not know the reason for the recording of the number plates, and as already stated-the driver is lead to believe the charges are given out as a result of patrols at the time of parking, not by any other means. Is this a good point to make to help get a charge cancelled?
I'm a little bit confused about how these car parks work-I'm talking about the ones that are pay and display and are also the licence plate recognition type. It seems if you get a parking charge it is based solely on the licence plate recognition and NOT on the pay and display ticket. Does this not render the whole pay and DISPLAY part pointless? Why would a car park require a driver to display their ticket if they are going to send out charges solely on licence plates and not even look at the displayed ticket at the time? Once the driver has paid and entered their licence plate number, it seems they could eat their ticket since the calculation of payment and stay will be based solely on how much was paid (licence plate and payment recorded on machine) and how long the camera says the car was parked for. This is in contradiction to the terms of pay and display surely?
As a driver, if these are the terms of the car park do you not reasonably expect it to be patrolled and to be given a fine on the actual day if you have not paid/overstayed? Isn't that the point in pay and display? It seems in fact the car park is not patrolled otherwise the driver could've expected a big "fine" on their windscreen.
Surely if you leave a car park having followed the instructions and not received a fine, you can assume that you did not breach any terms and conditions. The company is surely then wholly unreasonable to issue a fine through the post days later-especially if the signs state the car park IS patrolled and failure to pay and display will result in a fine . The driver will most likely have discarded the ticket by the time the charge comes through and therefore would have NO proof to dispute the charge.
Additionally, signs state that cameras are recording number plates and length of stay but not the reason WHY (ie to send a charge to the keeper later). Therefore the driver can only assume a charge would happen on the day as they would not know the reason for the recording of the number plates, and as already stated-the driver is lead to believe the charges are given out as a result of patrols at the time of parking, not by any other means. Is this a good point to make to help get a charge cancelled?
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I am struggling to see your point here.You never know how far you can go until you go too far.0
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It is not a fine.
The private parking industry is unregulated so trying to understand anything about it is a waste of time other than to know that all they want is your money and will try to confuse and bully the average motorist in order to get it. Unfortunately most of the time this works.
The law allows them to send out PCNs after the alleged parking event.
Have you read the Sticky thread for NEWBIES? This will explain a lot of things concerning the private parking business model, and how to fight unfair parking charges.
Tell all your friends and family to read it as well so they know what to do should they fall foul of this disgusting industry.I married my cousin. I had to...I don't have a sister.
All my screwdrivers are cordless."You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks0 -
Many car parks both ANPR controlled & manually patrolled are pay & display but also have the option of pay by phone where clearly no ticket can be displayed.0
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Fruitcake-I know it's not a fine, I meant to call it a charge the whole time but slipped into calling it a "fine" a couple times. Yes read newbies thread, lots of very helpful info there. Guess I just thought I could add to that info, stupid musings really I suppose-especially if no one sees my point haha! It seemed a fair point to me. Nevermind, I will be using it myself, if it doesn't work at the first stage (probably not) I'll be using it at POPLA stage- just thought I could help myself and others out if I got some ideas on whether it would be a good appeal point-I guess the "I am struggling to see your point here" would lean towards not...0
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I think we'd all love a 'Eureka' point as a showstopper, but the reality is regulars live and breathe this stuff every day of the week - and for many years.
I think we've been through every nook and cranny of private parking/contract law to exhaustion. But it's good that you are thinking outside the usual newbie box, which is often confined to 'help, help, yelp I've got a parking fine' - followed by dozens of exclamation marks !
Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street0 -
^^ Haha good point Umkomaas, I do bow to the superior knowledge on here of course, it was just a thought. I have already basically put together a popla appeal using the info here, I've been studying this site and everything I can read about it for the past few days- that was just an extra point (and was hoping it would also get it cancelled before it got to popla) wont hold my breath though...0
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What exactly offence were you charged with - not displaying a ticket or over staying or what? If Not displaying a ticket, then they need photographic evidence of that? Have they sent that and why no windscreen ticket?
Not altogether clear what your appeal poiint is, I am afraid. Sorry.0 -
Kat - I understand the point you're making and depending on what is written on the car park signs, it can be a valid one to include in a submission to POPLA.
POPLA appeals have been won on the basis that an operator did not comply with Paragraph 21.1 of the BPA Code of Practice i.e. You may use ANPR camera technology to manage, control and enforce parking in private car parks, as long as you do this in a reasonable, consistent and transparent manner. Your signs at the car park must tell drivers that you are using this technology and what you will use the data captured by ANPR cameras for.
Euro Car Parks are a good example of an operator with confusing signs. Even though a car park may be ANPR-controlled, their signs explain that a "Pay & Display" ticket must be displayed. Their signs advise motorists to enter their vehicle registration number when purchasing a P & D ticket - however, the signs do not state that failure to do so will result in a PCN being issued. This means that their ANPR evidence is insufficient to prove that a breach worthy of a PCN occurred.0 -
Guys Dad- Not until over a week later did a charge arrive through post saying driver had not paid based solely on the machine and licence plate recognition. Pay and display ticket long gone by then.
My point being that if it's pay and display and patrolled, a charge should've been given on the day-isn't that the whole point of DISPLAY-so that someone can go round and check you paid via the ticket? Upon leaving most would discard the ticket, so they have no proof they paid and displayed-maybe a tactic by the parking companies, anyway I wanted to dispute the terms and conditions of the "pay and display" basically.0 -
Edna_Basher wrote: »Kat - I understand the point you're making and depending on what is written on the car park signs, it can be a valid one to include in a submission to POPLA.
POPLA appeals have been won on the basis that an operator did not comply with Paragraph 21.1 of the BPA Code of Practice i.e. You may use ANPR camera technology to manage, control and enforce parking in private car parks, as long as you do this in a reasonable, consistent and transparent manner. Your signs at the car park must tell drivers that you are using this technology and what you will use the data captured by ANPR cameras for.
Euro Car Parks are a good example of an operator with confusing signs. Even though a car park may be ANPR-controlled, their signs explain that a "Pay & Display" ticket must be displayed. Their signs advise motorists to enter their vehicle registration number when purchasing a P & D ticket - however, the signs do not state that failure to do so will result in a PCN being issued. This means that their ANPR evidence is insufficient to prove that a breach worthy of a PCN occurred.
That is EXACTLY what I'm trying to get at-thank you!0
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