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Loading/Unloading outside my property

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Hi guys,
really new to this so would very much appreciate some help. I've had a look around the forum for some advice but have been unable to find anything that matches my case.

Back in December Purchased a new TV and went grocery shopping before returning home. I live in a flat so parked directly outside of the main communual door and began to unload both the TV and grocery shopping. I locked my car and began to take items inside. on the 2nd run I encountered a Traffic warden who had began to issue a parking charge. I explained that i was simply unloading and would move my vehicle to my designated bay as soon as i had taken the stuff inside. On returning to my car the scumbag had issued me with a parking charge! When i confronted him he went onto say that there was no loading or unloading permitted. I went on to contest the parking charge directly with the company in this case which is Parking and Property Management Ltd.

Now i must say at this stage I did not read any forums or look for advice at this stage, I simply filled out the form online with the truth and stated that i believed the charge to be unjust and unfair. The operator failed to acknowledge receipt and gave no respone whatsoever.
Foward to March 25th and I recieved a letter before the claim from Gladstones Solicitors. The letter stated i had 14 days to respond and again i submitted my case to Gladstones via email and again recieved no response.

Today I have recieved a County Court claim Dated the 5th March:
Breaching the terms of parking on the land. The defendant was driving the vehicle and/or is the keeper of the vehicle. AND the claimant claims £160 for parking charges/ Damages and indemnity costs plus interest of £2.18. Amount claimed £162.18 court fee:£25 legal representatives cost : £50 total £237.18.

The original fine was for £100, £60 if paid early so no idea where £160 came from? secondly i have a designated bay and also display a valid permit i was simply unloading a 40inch tv directly outside of my door as my bay is some distance away.

Im sorry if I have gone on and on but any input and advice would be greatly appreciated.

thanks in advance
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Comments

  • DoaM
    DoaM Posts: 11,863 Forumite
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    http://www.parking-prankster.com/case-law.html

    Take a look at ​CS038 Jopson v Homeguard [2016] B9GF0A9E Appeal (Tenancy trumps signage).
  • im_bigel
    im_bigel Posts: 17 Forumite
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    Take a look at ​CS038 Jopson v Homeguard [2016] B9GF0A9E Appeal (Tenancy trumps signage).[/QUOTE]
    Thanks for your response DoaM do you think i should focus on this case for my defence statement?
  • Timothea
    Timothea Posts: 177 Forumite
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    "Loading or unloading" is not parking. This is clear in Jopson -v- Homeguard and other case-law.

    The Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, as amended (RTRA) does not define "parking" so the Oxford English Dictionary definition is as good as any. (Look it up in a library.) The OED is what judges use to find a definition of English words in common usage.

    It should also be noted that both the RTRA and the Highway Code talk about "parking", "waiting", "loading or unloading" and "setting down or picking up passengers", each as a separate activity, with the term "stopping" encompassing all of them. It is possible that "waiting" could be regarded as "parking" as they are frequently mentioned in the same breath (e.g. "parking or waiting" is common in the RTRA). However, "loading or unloading" and "setting down or picking up passengers" are clearly different from parking or waiting.

    PPCs can only lawfully obtain your personal details from DVLA "to seek recovery of unpaid parking charges." Since loading or unloading isn't parking, not only should this be a winning defence argument but it also means that the PPC has obtained your personal details without reasonable cause (unless you unwisely gave the PPC your details). This is a breach of the Data Protection Act 1998, which is both a crime and a civil matter.

    More details about the Data Protection Act can be found in this thread:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5585388
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,753 Forumite
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    I encountered a Traffic warden

    No, you didn't.
    Today I have recieved a County Court claim Dated the 5th March:
    Do you mean 5th April?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • im_bigel
    im_bigel Posts: 17 Forumite
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    hi guys thanks for all your responses and sorry its taken me so long to respond.
    I did indeed mean the 5th April. I have read through the forum and attempted to write a defence statement would it be ok to post here for some advice.
    Thanks
  • im_bigel
    im_bigel Posts: 17 Forumite
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    'Dear Sirs' XXXXXXXX UKPC

    The facts in this statement come from my personal knowledge. Where they are not within my knowledge they are true to the best of my information and belief.

    I am not liable to the Claimant for the sum claimed, or any sum at all and this is my Witness Statement in support of my Statement of Defence as already filed.

    The facts of the case are as set out in my Statement of Defence, and I rely on that document as a true account. A copy follows this Witness Statement.

    I am an unrepresented consumer who has no experience of representing myself in the County Court.

    I assert that I am the registered keeper of the vehicle in question, registration xxx. I also assert that I was the registered keeper of that vehicle on the date 29/12/2016. I can also confirm that I was the driver of the vehicle.

    1 . I stopped outside the entrance of my flat to unload a 40 inch television and 8 bags of grocery shopping. (this cannot reasonably be carried from my legal parking spot)
    2 . My lease imposes no Loading /unloading conditions although a permit for parking is displayed purely for the convenience of the claimant's parking attendant.

    3 . No parking has taken place therefore no Parking charge can be issued.

    (A) The Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 and The Highway Code talk about "parking","waiting", "loading or unloading" and "setting down or picking up passengers", each as a separate activity. "Loading and unloading" or "setting down or picking up passengers" are clearly different from parking or waiting.
    (B) Loading or unloading with the permission of the landholder is not 'parking' and signs cannot override existing rights enjoyed by landowners and their visitors, as was found in the Appeal case decided by His Honour Judge Harris QC at Oxford County Court, in a similar case number B9GF0A9E: 'JOPSON V HOME GUARD SERVICES’. (EXHIBIT ?)
    (C) In the Jopson appeal it was also held as a finding of fact, that stopping to unload was not 'parking'.
    (D) In the Jopson appeal it was also held that signs added later by a third party parking firm are of no consequence to authorised visitors to premises where other rights prevail and supersede any alleged new 'parking contract’.

    (E) In any event, the signs make no offer to authorised visitors engaged in permitted loading/unloading for which no 'parking permit' was ever required (neither before the arrival of this Claimant onsite, nor after).
    (F) I would also like to refer to case Bulstrode v Lambert (1953) which discusses the right to loading and unloading;

    ''After considering the facts at the time of the grant, Mr Justice Upjohn ruled that an ancillary right to stop, load and unload may be implied into the express grant of a right of way where such a right is necessary for the reasonable enjoyment of the right of way.''
    4 If it can be proven that "parking" has occurred The Claimant did not comply with the IPC code of practice (Part B 15.1), regarding grace periods: “Drivers should be allowed a sufficient amount of time to park and read any signs so they may make an informed decision as to whether or not to remain on the site.” 10 mins is generally accepted to be the minimum amount of time to read and understand a contract and make a decision to park or not to park.

    5 . Signage.
    The claimants signs do not mention anything regarding "loading" or "unloading" so it is impossible for any contract to be established. The claimants signs only mention "parking" and at no time was my vehicle "parked" otherwise than in accordance with.

    6 . I contend that the Claimant has no authority to bring a claim. The proper Claimant is the landowner.

    (A) The Claimant does not own the land where the vehicle was unloading, nor does he have any interest in the land. It, therefore lacks the capacity to take away my right to access property for the intention of unloading .

    (B) The Claimant doesn't have a proof of a chain of contracts leading from the landowner to the Claimant which show that they have a right to unilaterally remove or interfere with the overriding rights conferred in the Lease.

    (C) Alternatively, even if a contract could be established, the provision requiring payment of £160.00 is an unenforceable penalty clause and an unfair term contrary to the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 2008.

    7 . The provision is a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss for the following reasons:

    (A) As the Claimant is not the landowner and suffers no loss whatsoever as a result of a vehicle parking at the locations in question.

    (B) The amount claimed is a charge and evidently disproportionate to any loss suffered by the Claimant and is therefore unconscionable;

    (C) The penalty bears no relation to the circumstances as I was simply stopped for temporary loading/unloading and no loss or damage to the Claimant arose from this.

    (D) The clause is specifically expressed to be a parking charge on the Claimant's current signs.

    (E) The Claimant has at no time provided an explanation how the sum has been calculated, the conduct that gave rise to it or how the amount has climbed from £100 to £160. This appears to be an added cost with apparently no qualification and an attempt at double recovery, which the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 specifically disallows.

    (F) Furthermore, Paragraph 4, Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 does not permit the Claimant to recover a sum greater than the parking charge on the day before a Notice to Keeper was issued. The Claimant cannot recover additional charges. The Claimant claims a sum of £100 as a ‘parking charge’ (for which liability is denied). The Particulars of Claim include an extra £60 that the claimant has untruthfully presented as parking charges plus interest.
    8 . The presence of the Claimant on the land will have supposedly been to prevent parking by uninvited persons, for the benefit of the actual leaseholders. Instead, a predatory operation has been carried out on those very people whose interests the Claimant was purportedly there to uphold.

    9 . As per Paragraphs 8-11 of the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct and Protocols, even though the Defendant disputed the claim, the Defendant invited the Claimant to enter some form of ADR to settle the dispute. The Claimant remained silent and ignored all approaches.

    (A) Furthermore the claimants solicitors have also chosen to ignore any correspondence and began court proceedings without allowing the allocated time for a response. Following the initial parking charge notice and the reminder letter, the next letter I received was on the 25th March, a generic letter before claim from Gladstones . I replied on the 5th April, within their 14 day request, as seen in Exhibit (?). My response consisted of an email outlining my defense but again, no response was received.

    10 . Lack of detail within the Particulars of Claim

    (A) I received County Court papers on the 7th April where within their particulars of claim it cited “parking charges”, as seen in Exhibit (?).
    I am unsure what reasons Parking and Property Management LTD are using for taking the case to court as they have provided very limited particulars of claim (PoC). I had received letters, as seen in Exhibit(?) , which stated reasons for the charge as parking in no parking area’ but I have since appealed this reason in that I was stopped, not parked as seen in Exhibit(?).

    (B) It is unknown if anything that I had previously stated within Exhibit(?) changed their reasons that made them find it deemable to raise this case to court as I did not receive a response and there is no detail offered of what “parking charges” entails within the PoC. The PoC does not meet the requirements of Practice Direction 16.5 as there is nothing which specifies how any terms were breached. Indeed the PoC are not clear and concise as is required by CPR 16.4 1(a) and CPR 1.1 and 1.4 which can be found in Exhibit(?) . This therefore means that the Claimant has not complied with the pre-court protocol.

    13. Lack of detail within the Particulars of Claim “RoboClaim”

    The Claimant’s solicitors are known to be a serial issuer of generic claims similar to this one, with no diligence, no scrutiny of details nor even checking for a true cause of action. HMCS have identified over 1000 similar sparse claims. I believe the term for such conduct is ‘roboclaims’ which is against the public interest, and unfair on unrepresented consumers. Parking companies using the small claims track as a form of aggressive, automated debt collection is not something the courts should be seen to support in accordance with CPR 1.1 2(a) “ensuring that the parties are on an equal footing”.

    As an unrepresented consumer I am immediately at a disadvantage compared to trained solicitor in the matter and this is aggravated by Gladstones Solictors whom are not following CPR 16.4 1(a) as I have not received a detailed PoC to be able to properly formulate a concentrated argument.

    (A) On the 20th September 2016 another relevant poorly pleaded private parking charge claim by Gladstones was struck out by District Judge Cross of St Albans County Court without a hearing due to their ‘roboclaim’ particulars being incoherent, failing to comply with CPR. 16.4 and ‘providing no facts that could give rise to any apparent claim in law’
    (B) On the 19th August 2016 DJ Anson sitting at Preston County Court ruled that the very similar parking charge particulars of claim were deficient and failing to meet CPR 16.4 and PD 16 paragraphs 7.3 - 7.5. He ordered the Claimant in that case to file new particulars which they failed to do, and the court confirmed the claim will now be struck out.

    The defendant therefore asks that the court orders the case to be struck out for want of a detailed
    course of action and/or for the claim as having no prospect of success.


    I believe the facts stated in this defence are true.
  • The_Deep
    The_Deep Posts: 16,830 Forumite
    edited 16 April 2017 at 2:58PM
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    They are certainly pushing their luck here, if this is not interfering with your "quiet enjoyment" of your property I do not know what is.

    Your lease/AST must surely mention your rights to come and go over communal property, to access your accommodation.

    It appears that neither the PPC nor the MA are acting in the best interests of the residents here and, imo, you should counterclaim against both for the inconvenience they have caused you, it is time this harassment of landlords and their tenants was stamped on.

    Read this

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/ukpc-lose-residential-case-charge-not.html
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,357 Forumite
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    edited 16 April 2017 at 9:21PM
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    This case is crying out for a DPA-related counterclaim which will mean that neither Gladstones nor the PPC will be able to discontinue the action shortly before the hearing date - after giving the OP hours and hours of work in order just to avoid a default judgment against him.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • Dot2101
    Dot2101 Posts: 60 Forumite
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    I have just won a case for a loading/unloading situation, all they could prove was 2 minutes
    I used Jopson as my first arguement in court which worked well
    I also used ibbotsen which I recommend adding in, this is about the parking company mitigating losses to the landowner- i think it's on page 8 of the transcript there's a part where the judge says the person issuing the "ticket" could have advised the driver to move to vehicle or if they didn't want to move they would have to charge them £80. In my case my point was there was someone in the car so they could have alerted the driver to what would happen, in your case perhaps you could argue that you had spoken to them to explain what you were doing and they could have taken this opportunity to explain this to you but instead they proceeded in issuing a fine. I said that this was predatory tactics (something about this in the IPC code of practice ) and the judge cited this as one of the reasons why we won the case
    Hope this helps
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,357 Forumite
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    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
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