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Sussex Police plan to fit dementia patients

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teajug
teajug Posts: 488 Forumite
edited 1 May 2013 at 8:36AM in Disability money matters
Wonder what the Cameron/Osborn/ Blair would say if their belated cherished Maggie had to have one of the trackers fitted on her. I alway these are only fitted to criminals not patients.:mad:..but it seems to be done to save money.....:mad:

http://bolsoverawakeningheadlines.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/sussex-police-plan-to-fit-dementia.html
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  • rogerblack
    rogerblack Posts: 9,446 Forumite
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    teajug wrote: »
    Wonder what the Cameron/Osborn/ Blair would say if their belated cherished Maggie had to have one of the trackers fitted on her. I alway these are only fitted to criminals not patients.:mad:..but it seems to be done to save money.....:mad:

    http://bolsoverawakeningheadlines.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/sussex-police-plan-to-fit-dementia.html

    'To save money' - well - sure - that's one side of it.
    You think a person that's wandered off and doesn't know where they are is always happy, warm, well-fed and safe for the duration of their wandering?

    To help find someone rapidly, when they are lost, confused and frightened doesn't seem to be a wholly bad thing.
  • markmarkmark
    markmarkmark Posts: 88 Forumite
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    If it's for genuine dementia patients, at risk of wandering off, with the permission of relatives, and only used if and when they cannot be found, is it such a breach of human rights? Genuine patients may not even know they are wearing the necklace? We just need well thought out safeguards.

    The police can track anyone through their mobile phone (while on) with the help of the network if they are a criminal OR missing as far as I know. GPS would be faster and more accurate.
  • Mojisola
    Mojisola Posts: 35,559 Forumite
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    How ridiculous to call it "inhumane". Wearing the gadget doesn't hurt anyone but, if they go off wandering, it enables them to be found quickly.

    If you had a relative with dementia, which would you prefer - Mum leaves the house and starts looking for house she grew up in (even if that's in another town) and gets lost - the police very quickly find her because she's wearing a GPS tracker OR Mum leaves the house, gets hopelessly lost, is missing for hours and half the local police are called out to search for her?
  • Brassedoff
    Brassedoff Posts: 1,217 Forumite
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    I can tell you my experience, but please be aware I am part of this project and I want to avoid shouts of bias. There is no other product out there on the market and I want to avoid being accused of posting a sales pitch. If you read below, you do so on the understanding I am talking about a project that sells a product.

    It is a good idea. I have been part of a team that has worked on this type of product for the past 18 months.

    The one in the papers and on TV is just a block that can be taken off, lost or dropped. It can only track via GPS, so under any structure or in a house and there is a better than even chance it will not track.

    OK, my project - it does sound a bit like a sales pitch.

    I will tell you a bit of history. I was for a long time in the Police in a central English county force. My shift had a report of a "misper" (Police term for missing person) at least five times a week when someone went missing from a nursing home. Sometimes you found the elderly person quickly, sometimes it took a while. You ended up deploying a lot of assets if the time went past an hour or so. It was always a sad situation. Many people were regressing to their childhood and looking for something that was no longer there. Sadly despite efforts once we never did find one.

    He was found three years later in foliage on the A444 and M6 junction 3 island. Well, his remains were!

    To modern day, I work as a Business Consultant. It allows me to work from bed a few times a week. A client who I currently work with has developed a range of monitoring products.

    In this case, our product from the company (Five Secure Ltd) is called Watch Over Me. One of the products is designed for vulnerable people through a range of wrist watches. It works on its own or with a range of other devices in the home. They monitor devices (household products) and how often they are used, or more importantly how they start to get used less and less. It is one of the early warning signs.

    The top level product is the "life" monitoring device. This enables you to spot early signs of deterioration a the person. It does this by taking real time benchmarks throughout the day of the persons activities and vital signs.

    An example could be that the person gets up every day at 8am. A few years later, they start to develop early onset of health issues that many of us may suffer in later life but are missed by those around us. The person starts to show the on-set of early signs of ill health such as dementia and their daily routine changes. For example getting out of bed later in the day, keeping the heating off. Not being as active, or even falling. The device is able to show that.

    You can see whether they are drinking or eating enough, leaving the cooker on via the device monitors.

    What you have to understand, the products are designed to help the person to stay independent and in their own home longer. It is just a guardian angel type of idea that can pick up on the smallest issues that roll into one big other problem.

    It allows an earlier medical intervention when the family or other services can see through to interface on a website that there is a deterioration. It shows this as a graph and tells you what should be the signs, temperature, heart rate, oxygen saturation etc.

    The devices work in and out of the home. Where the device that the OP talks about falls down is that it is basically on a lanyard and does not track live unless you go through several services to "ping" it.

    The device on the TV and in the Paper only tracks through GPS rather than using a broad array tracking. So, enter a building or woods for example and you lose GPS lock. A device and there are several GPS devices on the market not aimed at this type of customer that track like the Watch Over Me and uses a higher standard of tracking. We and they use Assisted GPS (A-GPS), GLONASS, Galileo and GPRS. So the device can find the person in many other areas.

    The base model that is the wrist watch, can work on its own, it simply monitors the person’s vital signs and where they are. The monitoring station gets alerts if something happens, or if you are a member of the family, you log into a website and can "ping", or ask the device where they are. We only advise live tracking in the instances of there being a problem.

    The killer is, you can call the device. It has a regular phone number so you can call the person, or in cases of emergency override the device and make a forced call which automatically connects the device to an open call. It has a fall down indicator that connects to the monitoring station if the wearer falls over, or even does not move for the 20 minutes the medical people say a person should move.

    Watch Over Me also has an alert button that allows the wearer to press a button to alert the monitoring station if they have an unwanted caller or if they are in trouble. This works as well at home as it does in a supermarket car park. The person also has the ability to summon help covertly. It is easy to make a grab for something around a neck, when the press of a button on a device that looks like a watch does not alert any potential person who could do harm.

    One of the country’s largest local authorities is currently trialling the device.

    Unlike all other service providers, we sell ours to the public direct.

    End of pitch!

    To be honest, anything that allows someone to live in their own home longer must be much better that people having to go in a home. Of course people will point out the cost considerations as it means it is far, far less expensive (£30-£40 a week) compared to the £500 in a care home.

    Teajug, you post that this makes you mad. But we live in a society that leaves old and vulnerable, alone and cold. If there is anything that can be an item of last resort, then irrespective, it is better than someone who is old, suffering from illness or other infirmity being left alone. Nothing beats family or a good neighbour, but what do you do when that breaks down?

    My wife's Grandmother is wearing one and it give us so much peace of mind for a 92 year old.


    *I stress I have a bias for the Watch Over Me product. A vast amount of research has been done and nothing like it is on the market. There are other products on the market that may do parts or all of what I describe.
  • Mojisola
    Mojisola Posts: 35,559 Forumite
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    Brassedoff wrote: »
    To be honest, anything that allows someone to live in their own home longer must be much better that people having to go in a home. Of course people will point out the cost considerations as it means it is far, far less expensive (£30-£40 a week) compared to the £500 in a care home.

    I hope these devices will be commonplace in the future if I ever go the way the way my Mum did.
  • teajug
    teajug Posts: 488 Forumite
    edited 1 May 2013 at 5:51PM
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    My view is this if we lived in a civilised society that respects people then I would have no problems with it. But sadly that is not the case. People with Parkinson some times are taken as been drunk and refused to be service in shops, what would happen to a person with a tracker on them. They would probably end up in prison cell as they may be taken as a criminal.

    People in the late state of dementia are not able to wonder too far anyway and all that is needed is good secure place for them to wonder around in.

    If it’s for just getting lost then why is it not recommended for children as well?


    http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/health/local-health/parkinson-s-sufferer-refused-service-for-being-drunk-1-5004161


    http://www.maturetimes.co.uk/health/health-news/5523-people-with-parkinson%C3%A2%E2%82%AC%E2%84%A2s-subject-to-%C3%A2%E2%82%AC%CB%9Cintolerable%C3%A2%E2%82%AC%E2%84%A2-discrimination-and-prejudice.html
  • Two4Tuesday
    Two4Tuesday Posts: 639 Forumite
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    teajug wrote: »
    My view is this if we lived in a civilised society that respects people then I would have no problems with it. But sadly that is not the case. People with Parkinson some times are taken as been drunk and refused to be service in shops, what would happen to a person with a tracker on them. They would probably end up in prison cell as they may be taken as a criminal.

    People in the late state of dementia are not able to wonder too far anyway and all that is needed is good secure place for them to wonder around in.

    If it’s for just getting lost then why is it not recommended for children as well?


    http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/health/local-health/parkinson-s-sufferer-refused-service-for-being-drunk-1-5004161


    http://www.maturetimes.co.uk/health/health-news/5523-people-with-parkinson%C3%A2%E2%82%AC%E2%84%A2s-subject-to-%C3%A2%E2%82%AC%CB%9Cintolerable%C3%A2%E2%82%AC%E2%84%A2-discrimination-and-prejudice.html

    So you're happy to lock them up but not put a tracker on them? I think you're a few cups short of a full jug.
  • teajug
    teajug Posts: 488 Forumite
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    So you're happy to lock them up but not put a tracker on them? I think you're a few cups short of a full jug.

    How dare you say I am happy to lock people with dementia, where have I say that....can you not think of anything more useful to post that do not make assumption about other posters that you do not know from Adam.

    It breaks my heart when I see people in care homes that have no secure areas in care them to go outside also it more discussing when there care home takes people in and are paid handsomely for no care.

    Care home owners do not want to spend money on staff to enable decent care for the people that they say they are going to look after and take them out shopping or other activities outside the care homes. These homes should be closed down.

    Governments should take responsibility for the voters and make sure that bad care homes are shut down immediately and the one that have been abusive to patients the owners should go to prison.

    As mentioned we do not live in a civilised society and that is the problem, people have no respect for older people and as well as disabled people, very sad world that we live in now.

    The have come up with this idea for adults getting lost, children get lost as well, therdore why not give them to children as well.
  • xsunnysuex
    xsunnysuex Posts: 582 Forumite
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    teajug wrote: »
    People in the late state of dementia are not able to wonder too far anyway and all that is needed is good secure place for them to wonder around in.

    I can assure you they can wonder far away. My father had advanced dementia. He was able one morning to let himself out of the house. And wonder off in his slippers.
    He was missing for over two hours. It was only by luck that a relative passed him in his car that we got him back safe and sound.
    He was a few miles from home, and heading in a direction that would have taken him even further. There is no way he would ever have found his way back.
    A lot of dementia sufferers do not live in care homes. So do not have a secure place to wonder around in.
    I would have loved to have a tracking device that would let me know where dad was if he wondered off. Better than not knowing where he was and if we were ever going to see him alive again.
  • seashore22
    seashore22 Posts: 1,443 Forumite
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    edited 2 May 2013 at 12:48PM
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    teajug - do you have any experience of dementia and similar conditions? People who have this illness can certainly travel a considerable distance.

    I have an elderly and vulnerable relative with severe mental health problems. They went through a period of constantly leaving the house in a confused state. On one memorable occasion they hopped on a train in the Midlands without a ticket and ended up in a city in the Southwest. Quite a distance I think you will agree. They were picked up late at night by the transport police thank goodness.

    We once found an elderly lady with obvious dementia wandering around our estate. She was very upset and confused and it took some time and a good bit of luck to finally locate her home.

    In the right circumstances I think these devices will be invaluable for carers and the sufferers themselves.

    Also not too sure what this has to do with care homes. Both the cases I mentioned involved dementia sufferers living in domestic homes. My relative is now in a secure and lovely care home and being very well looked after. It is a huge relief.
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