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  • FIRST POST
    • Davidmc1948
    • By Davidmc1948 17th Sep 13, 1:34 PM
    • 11Posts
    • 13Thanks
    Davidmc1948
    Mr McDonald
    • #1
    • 17th Sep 13, 1:34 PM
    Mr McDonald 17th Sep 13 at 1:34 PM
    Hi my wife is a blue badge holder and was admitted to a hospital on the 3/09/2013 the car was parked in a Blue Badge bay for some time, I have since received a fine from Parking eye I have been in touch with the health trust and asked if it is compulsory to register the blue badge, they replied that they have installed registration # plate cameras and if the Blue badge is not registered then you will have to pay for your parking is this legal talk about NHS privatisation this world has gone mad.

    Thank you David
Page 2
    • Davidmc1948
    • By Davidmc1948 18th Sep 13, 8:48 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Davidmc1948
    This registering your badge and vehicle is all rubbish.

    The hospital is giving the OP the run-around here.

    They are confusing (possibly deliberately) blue badge holders and people with disabilities.

    The law says they must not discriminate against, and that they must make allowances for, disabled people. Blue badges are a red herring here.

    They are already discriminating against disabled people and their carers and family members by setting up such a registration scheme.

    My dad aged 97 has a Blue Badge but no car.

    Six of us - all his close family - take it in turns to take him to the local hospital. We would find this registration palaver a pain in the rear end to have to undertake in order to help him.

    This crazy idea needs the involvement of the press, local councillors, MP etc etc to bring these fools to their senses.
    Originally posted by Iceweasel
    Hi Thank you for your reply I have done as you have suggested and informed my MP on this matter because quiet frankly I believe the Healthcare trust is just as bad as PE sorry about the smilie I sent the wrong one
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th Sep 13, 11:58 PM
    • 78,002 Posts
    • 91,546 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Hi I am sorry that I may be causing a complicated or hard to understand situation firstly I have appealed to PE against the Fake PCN I still have not heard from them although it is still in its infancy there has been approx 14 days gone by at the moment but my worry is that at the moment the trust seem to be adamant that registration is a must to qualify for free parking they have however advised me that if I receive a PCN then I should contact the Trust or PE.
    This is what I received today from the trust:
    Blue Badge Holders do not automatically qualify for free parking everywhere, however this Trust does allow free parking on condition that they register their badge and car details with us. If a person is a blue badge holder and they receive a PCN they would need to contact us or ParkingEye Ltd.

    Now it seems that the trust and not the hospital where the PCN occurred are who you contact
    also when you register the Blue badge and the vehicle you are attending hospital
    in you can park free but should you attend the hospital in an other vehicle
    you have to register that vehicle also to qualify for free parking with your Blue Badge,
    I know that I have to contact the trust and give them the evidence but a disabled
    person should not have to go through all this palava, I am also worried about the
    repercussions my wife will get for the the hassle I cause.
    Originally posted by Davidmc1948


    There will be no repercussions and I agree you should not have to go through all this palaver!

    But the risk you are taking if you don't send a copy of the Blue Badge, or miss your POPLA appeal deadline in the end (or blow your chance with a weak POPLA appeal without asking for advice here first!!) is that PE may well choose your case for small claims court. Why would you risk that stress when you can simply get it cancelled following our advice?

    Complain to the Facilities or Estates Manager at the Hospital as well as whoever you have already contacted there. And even though it's a palaver, to avoid court play the game their way a bit, send the Badge and ask the Estates or Facilities Manager to cancel this charge as it causing you distress and is actually an example of indirect discrimination.

    As I have already explained and given you the wording for above, a blanket policy like theirs can cause indirect discrimination - and in your case it has done = illegal.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 19-09-2013 at 12:00 AM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Davidmc1948
    • By Davidmc1948 22nd Sep 13, 8:42 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Davidmc1948
    Hi can I firstly thank all who gave me some very good and sound advice which I took after a few kicks up the rear end Thank you all, secondly as a result of taking the advice I contacted the Estates manager of the Trust involved the manager was reluctant to cancel the PCN unless I gave her permission to put the Blue Badge # on their data base which I refused because it is not my Blue Badge, I also pointed out to her that they are breaking the EA 2010 act which she never gave me an answer instead she passed me over to another department, the lady at this department also wished to put my wives Blue Badge info on the data Base I again refused as I was not given permission to do so she said it should be done before my wives next hospital visit, the question also arose about the reporting of each and every vehicle my wife arrives at the hospital in I told her it was total rubbish a scheme such as this was stupid as anyone can quote a Blue Badge # and then gain free parking she said it's not the blue badge that is checked it is the vehicle the mind boggles, she then went on to inform me that you are allowed to register up to 5 vehicles I thought that's a joke in its self, she did however after I told her about the signage being inadequate that there is new signage on order after her futile attempts to allow her to record the Blue Badge she agreed to cancel the PCN but it was in my opinion after struggle.

    Thank you all
    Last edited by Davidmc1948; 22-09-2013 at 8:45 PM.
    • Stroma
    • By Stroma 22nd Sep 13, 8:56 PM
    • 7,917 Posts
    • 8,408 Thanks
    Stroma
    Happy that they have cancelled this for you, they appear to be slightly nuts in the way they are handling this, they will come a cropper eventually when they come across someone who will take this to a court
    When posting a parking issue on MSE do not reveal any information that may enable PPCs to identify you. They DO monitor the forum.
    We don't need the following to help you.
    Name, Address, PCN Number, Exact Date Of Incident, Date On Invoice, Reg Number, Vehicle Picture, The Time You Entered & Left Car Park, Or The Amount of Time You Overstayed.
    Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Member
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 22nd Sep 13, 9:54 PM
    • 25,628 Posts
    • 41,559 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Well done Mr Mac

    I think Coupon-mad will be interested in this from 2 angles - complaining to a landowner and the Equality Act.

    A possible place in her Hall of Fame?
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 22-09-2013 at 9:56 PM.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case papers, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 23rd Sep 13, 11:02 PM
    • 78,002 Posts
    • 91,546 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Hi can I firstly thank all who gave me some very good and sound advice which I took after a few kicks up the rear end Thank you all, secondly as a result of taking the advice I contacted the Estates manager of the Trust involved the manager was reluctant to cancel the PCN unless I gave her permission to put the Blue Badge # on their data base which I refused because it is not my Blue Badge, I also pointed out to her that they are breaking the EA 2010 act which she never gave me an answer instead she passed me over to another department, the lady at this department also wished to put my wives Blue Badge info on the data Base I again refused as I was not given permission to do so she said it should be done before my wives next hospital visit, the question also arose about the reporting of each and every vehicle my wife arrives at the hospital in I told her it was total rubbish a scheme such as this was stupid as anyone can quote a Blue Badge # and then gain free parking she said it's not the blue badge that is checked it is the vehicle the mind boggles, she then went on to inform me that you are allowed to register up to 5 vehicles I thought that's a joke in its self, she did however after I told her about the signage being inadequate that there is new signage on order after her futile attempts to allow her to record the Blue Badge she agreed to cancel the PCN but it was in my opinion after struggle.

    Thank you all
    Originally posted by Davidmc1948

    Well done, and I agree with every point you have made. Their system discriminates against genuine disabled people and is so open to abuse it's sad but almost laughable!

    I have added your success to the 'Hall of Fame' sticky thread about complaints re PPC scams:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4766249

    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Davidmc1948
    • By Davidmc1948 25th Sep 13, 2:24 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Davidmc1948
    This may or may not be Northumbria but I have received a pre appointment leaflet from them which states you must register the vehicle on or before the visit by phone to parking eye, by completing the form that came with the leaflet, or online.

    I assume that this actually makes no differece and they are still breaking the BPA code of practice?

    I also wondered if this leaflet was an attempt to prevent any appeals on the basis of not having clear signage. If they've told you beforehand then does the signage argument still apply?

    I have sent an email to the address provided which is carparking@northumbria.nhs.uk simply asking why they are exploiting their vunerable clients and subjecting them to the harrassment which is commonplace with Parking Eye. I also asked for a copy of the contract under FOI.

    Depending on opinion on the leaflet here I might tell them that they (PE) are in fact breaking their own code of practice regardless of what information is sent prior to hospital visits.
    Originally posted by martmonk
    Hi Martmonk as you are probably aware my issue was with Northumbria Healthcare and I must add it still is because although I have successfully had my PCN cancelled it still does not alter the fact that with evidence and replies I have received on the thread here on the forum it is against the EA 2010, I have now put the matter in the hands of my MP and have had a reply he has stated that he has put it in the hands off the Chief Executive of the NHS can I ask all the members who have or had a problem with Health care Trusts to contact their MPs and put your concerns to he/she about this matter or would someone suggest that it is better to wait until I have had a reply from my MP
    • martmonk
    • By martmonk 25th Sep 13, 2:44 PM
    • 859 Posts
    • 913 Thanks
    martmonk
    Hi Martmonk as you are probably aware my issue was with Northumbria Healthcare and I must add it still is because although I have successfully had my PCN cancelled it still does not alter the fact that with evidence and replies I have received on the thread here on the forum it is against the EA 2010, I have now put the matter in the hands of my MP and have had a reply he has stated that he has put it in the hands off the Chief Executive of the NHS can I ask all the members who have or had a problem with Health care Trusts to contact their MPs and put your concerns to he/she about this matter or would someone suggest that it is better to wait until I have had a reply from my MP
    Originally posted by Davidmc1948

    Good for you. I'm awaiting a response from Steven Bannister who is the Director of Estates Management for the trust (so all three hospitals - North Tyneside General (AKA Rake Lane), Wansbeck General and Hexham General). He acknowledged my email but has said he will provide a formal response in writing by email - that was the 17th, nothing yet.

    I have had my freedom of information request acknowledged and am awaiting sight of it - or notification that there is a cost which resets the 20 days they have to provide it.

    I have also posted on patientopinions https://www.patientopinion.org.uk/opinions/112873 where I direct people here and to pepipoo. I also ask some questions which I hope will be answered by Annie Laverty or her team (Director of Patient Experience). - Note the wording I have used is entirely deliberate.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 25th Sep 13, 5:14 PM
    • 78,002 Posts
    • 91,546 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Well done on escalating this complaint, both of you, someone needed to!! This thread explains how the Hospital & PPC has IMHO specifically breached statute:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=63093868

    ...saves me typing it all out again - but could be useful if you get a useless reply at first. Such blanket polices with no reasonable adjustment for disabled people are unlawful (indirect discrimination).
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • martmonk
    • By martmonk 4th Oct 13, 1:39 PM
    • 859 Posts
    • 913 Thanks
    martmonk
    so as mentioned earlier on the thread I have 3 lines of enquiry ongoing here.
    There was progress on all three this week.

    1st on FOI my request was for a copy of the contract and details of any profit sharing. I received a response this week saying there is no profit share but making no reference to the contract. I have replied stating my displeasure at the response and asking for the contract again.
    I have the option to complain to the information commissioners office as a next step should the information not be forthcoming.

    2nd the aforementioned Mr Bannister replied saying that the decision to employ PE was taken after meetings etc with his team, the exec managment team and the trust board. His response to the EA breach question was to quote from the BPA which makes me think that PE provided the response. He specifically said "My view is, that there is not a breach of the code as the concession available is not available on the basis that the “vehicle displays a valid Blue Badge” but is actually conditional on the registration of that vehicle via our permit system, as we cannot reasonably know that the vehicle belongs to a disabled person, unless it is registered. "

    I have responded using C-M's template mentioned above. I've insisted that he share it with the executive managment team and the trust board.

    3rd the post I made here https://www.patientopinion.org.uk/opinions/112873 has a response. You'll find the terminology interesting - I wonder if this alone would be grounds for every appeal relating to these three hospitals to succeed?

    Regardless none of my q's have actually been answered so I've re-asked them. I will post as a separate question if they remain un-answered.

    More updates as and when.
    • Iceweasel
    • By Iceweasel 4th Oct 13, 1:49 PM
    • 4,412 Posts
    • 3,250 Thanks
    Iceweasel
    Re item #3

    I note that Annie Laverty refers to 'penalty' several times and even calls it a 'fine' at one point.

    That show us exactly how much understanding she has of the reality of what the Trust has done.

    Keep up the good work - don't let them off the hook.
    • martmonk
    • By martmonk 4th Oct 13, 2:00 PM
    • 859 Posts
    • 913 Thanks
    martmonk
    Re item #3

    I note that Annie Laverty refers to 'penalty' several times and even calls it a 'fine' at one point.

    That show us exactly how much understanding she has of the reality of what the Trust has done.

    Keep up the good work - don't let them off the hook.
    Originally posted by Iceweasel

    That's what I meant about terminology and whether that was grounds for upheld appeals - the landowner repeatedly admitting the charges were fines or penalties and therefore punative.

    If you look at other threads on the site it is not an isolated incident. She and her team have consistently used the words fine and penalty in relation to the charges.
    • martmonk
    • By martmonk 4th Oct 13, 7:48 PM
    • 859 Posts
    • 913 Thanks
    martmonk
    This is the content of the FOI letter I have received this evening. A flat rejection to my request. Any suggestions? I was thinking of specifically asking about title and express permission to pursue charges and take legal action.

    The letter content:

    Decision Notice:
    I would be grateful if you could provide me, under the Freedom of Information Act, with any contracts Northumbria Healthcare NHS Foundation Trust has with Parking Eye and details of any associated mutually beneficial arrangements - in other words whether the NHS trust is sharing the profits of this despicable organisation.

    Response:

    Contracts Northumbria Healthcare NHS Foundation Trust has with Parking Eye

    S43 (2)
    Information is exempt information if its disclosure under this Act would, or would be likely to; prejudice the commercial interests of any person (including the public authority holding it).

    The Trust is unable to provide the information in response to your request as this is considered to be commercially sensitive as it is considered that the commercial interests of the contractor would be exposed by the release of the contract data. Under section 43 of the Act a public authority is exempt from the duty to communicate information where disclosure of the requested information would or would be likely to prejudice the commercial interests of the organisation or a third party.
    • Stroma
    • By Stroma 4th Oct 13, 8:42 PM
    • 7,917 Posts
    • 8,408 Thanks
    Stroma
    Well I know a trust has released this information under a foi request previously. I am not 100% sure where you can go from here, but a complaint to the information commissioners office might be an idea.

    I would say thinking about it is that if you have a claim from a parking company, you have a legal right to see this document as part of discovery, if they issue a claim from this trust, then you can ask for this document as they are the principle.

    Or am I wrong here ?
    When posting a parking issue on MSE do not reveal any information that may enable PPCs to identify you. They DO monitor the forum.
    We don't need the following to help you.
    Name, Address, PCN Number, Exact Date Of Incident, Date On Invoice, Reg Number, Vehicle Picture, The Time You Entered & Left Car Park, Or The Amount of Time You Overstayed.
    Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Member
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Oct 13, 9:43 PM
    • 78,002 Posts
    • 91,546 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=79773

    HTH
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • martmonk
    • By martmonk 4th Oct 13, 10:36 PM
    • 859 Posts
    • 913 Thanks
    martmonk
    Thanks
    This thread is concerning section 41. My response quoted section 43. Would the content of post 36 apply?

    I'm going to use this paragraph and see where it gets me.

    "The Information Tribunal has confirmed that information contained in a contract between a public authority and a third party represents the conclusion of negotiations between the two parties, and as such is jointly created rather than being obtained by the public authority from the contractor. It is therefore not confidential information."
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Oct 13, 10:41 PM
    • 78,002 Posts
    • 91,546 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Not sure, I just know that Philter knows what he is talking about but only rarely posts. I recalled that he had posted that a while back.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • martmonk
    • By martmonk 4th Oct 13, 11:14 PM
    • 859 Posts
    • 913 Thanks
    martmonk
    Again thanks. I've registered over on pepipoo and will post on there tomorrow.
    • martmonk
    • By martmonk 5th Oct 13, 6:39 AM
    • 859 Posts
    • 913 Thanks
    martmonk
    I found a post on pepipoo which related to this trust, they have used this exemption before.

    However I have done two things, first I've replied saying that for the second successive time the response is incomplete, this time it made no mention of the public interest test which it must do to reject under section 43. I have made reference to lodging a complaint to the information commissioners office by way of cc'ing that organisation to the email.

    Secondly I have submitted a new FOI request which asks:

    (1) if the contract gives Parking Eye the right to pursue people to small claims courts; and if so (2) the wording of that section of the contract only
    • martmonk
    • By martmonk 7th Oct 13, 9:17 AM
    • 859 Posts
    • 913 Thanks
    martmonk
    so over the weekend a response was posted to the patient opinion site https://www.patientopinion.org.uk/opinions/112873

    of particular interest is the answer given to my Q2 which was;
    do you believe that the fines being issued in any way represent a fair charge, in that they are £70?

    The answer recieved is;
    2 Northumberland County Council, Newcastle City Council and North Tyneside Council all issue Penalty Charge Notices with two levels of charges £70 and £50. All three authorities reduce this by 50% if paid within 14 days of issue. The £70 charge issued by ParkingEye (which is reduced to £40 if paid within 14 days) is therefore in line with the penalty charges issued by local councils.

    I've just submitted my response to this which includes against item 2 - WOW

    I have also commented that whilst they might be incorrect responses to my questions 1 and 2 are at least well written and clear. 3is not and I would suggest provided by Parking Eye.

    I've submitted a further, separate comment regard to the EA2010 and will update on here as we progress.
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