Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • natalieho
    • By natalieho 23rd Oct 12, 2:31 PM
    • 502Posts
    • 407Thanks
    natalieho
    Health and Safety Laws Re Accident Book
    • #1
    • 23rd Oct 12, 2:31 PM
    Health and Safety Laws Re Accident Book 23rd Oct 12 at 2:31 PM
    Could someone help me with this, my daughter had an accident in a major department store. Staff where told, and acknowledged by the physical evdience of that happened.

    I was in shock and had a very very upset child, when i have spoke with various people re the accident i was told due to Health and Safety law this should have been recorded.

    I contacted the said store, and got a responce that i refused medical care thus this means it would not go in the book.

    A- I never refused medical care B- I have been told even though we never had medical care their that its their responsibility and they had to record the accident for their own legalalities to cover themselves from being sued.

    Can someone please confirm what ACT it is in law that they have to follow on recording this.
Page 1
    • muckybutt
    • By muckybutt 23rd Oct 12, 3:01 PM
    • 3,618 Posts
    • 3,419 Thanks
    muckybutt
    • #2
    • 23rd Oct 12, 3:01 PM
    • #2
    • 23rd Oct 12, 3:01 PM
    Healy and safety at work act 1974

    4 General duties of persons concerned with premises to persons other than their employees.E+W+S+N.I.

    (1)This section has effect for imposing on persons duties in relation to those who—
    (a)are not their employees; but
    (b)use non-domestic premises made available to them as a place of work or as a place where they may use plant or substances provided for their use there,
    and applies to premises so made available and other non-domestic premises used in connection with them.
    (2)It shall be the duty of each person who has, to any extent, control of premises to which this section applies or of the means of access thereto or egress therefrom or of any plant or substance in such premises to take such measures as it is reasonable for a person in his position to take to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, that the premises, all means of access thereto or egress therefrom available for use by persons using the premises, and any plant or substance in the premises or, as the case may be, provided for use there, is or are safe and without risks to health.

    However - The Reporting of Injuries, Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations 1995 goes on to say :

    Injuries to people not at work
    You must report injuries to members of the public or people who are not at work if
    they are injured following an accident that arises out of, or in connection with, work
    and are taken from the scene of an accident to hospital for treatment.


    Recording and reporting accidents and ill health at work is a legal requirement under The Reporting of Injuries, Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations 1995 (RIDDOR).
    RIDDOR places a legal duty on:
    • employers
    • self-employed people
    • people in control of premises.
    These 'responsible persons' must record and report certain incidents, injuries, diseases and dangerous occurrences involving employees, self-employed workers and members of the public.

    What do responsible persons have to do?

    Details of all reportable incidents, injuries, diseases and dangerous occurrences must be recorded, including:
    • the date when the report is made
    • the method of reporting
    • the date, time and place of the event
    • personal details of those involved
    • a brief description of the nature of the event or disease.
    Records can be kept in any form but must conform to data protection requirements.

    So because your daughter didnt need medical assistance they are not legally bound to report it under RIDDOR, however it does require them to record the incident in their accident book by LAW.



    You may click thanks if you found my advice useful
    • natalieho
    • By natalieho 23rd Oct 12, 3:10 PM
    • 502 Posts
    • 407 Thanks
    natalieho
    • #3
    • 23rd Oct 12, 3:10 PM
    • #3
    • 23rd Oct 12, 3:10 PM
    Thank you so much Muckybutt, so if i was writing back to them which part would i quote that they had a legal obligation to record it.

    I just wanted to make sure it was recorded but got such a snotty letter back, when what happened to my daughter was pretty horrific which took 30 minutes in store (with staff) to stop her crying that i want them to know it IS something they needed to record.
    • muckybutt
    • By muckybutt 23rd Oct 12, 3:24 PM
    • 3,618 Posts
    • 3,419 Thanks
    muckybutt
    • #4
    • 23rd Oct 12, 3:24 PM
    • #4
    • 23rd Oct 12, 3:24 PM
    Quote the RIDDOR 1995 Act.

    copy and paste :

    Recording and reporting accidents and ill health at work is a legal requirement under The Reporting of Injuries, Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations 1995 (RIDDOR).
    RIDDOR places a legal duty on:
    • employers
    • self-employed people
    • people in control of premises.
    These 'responsible persons' must record and report certain incidents, injuries, diseases and dangerous occurrences involving employees, self-employed workers and members of the public.

    What do responsible persons have to do?


    Details of all reportable incidents, injuries, diseases and dangerous occurrences must be recorded, including:
    • the date when the report is made
    • the method of reporting
    • the date, time and place of the event
    • personal details of those involved
    • a brief description of the nature of the event or disease.
    Records can be kept in any form but must conform to data protection requirements.



    Should they not do that then contact the Health and Safety Executive.
    You may click thanks if you found my advice useful
  • archived user
    • #5
    • 23rd Oct 12, 3:31 PM
    • #5
    • 23rd Oct 12, 3:31 PM
    I am not sure that H&SW Section 4 actually covers shops.
    You are using neither plant nor substances provided for their use.

    There is a general duty of care by the premises owner and their employees for all visitors

    There is no mandatory requirement to complete an accident book entry in this situation, however, in our highly litigious society it would make sense to have a record.
  • archived user
    • #6
    • 23rd Oct 12, 3:36 PM
    • #6
    • 23rd Oct 12, 3:36 PM
    must record and report certain incidents, injuries, diseases and dangerous occurrences involving employees, self-employed workers and members of the public.

    Originally posted by muckybutt
    The injuries you must record are here. Which is basically anything that needs hospital treatment. If it doesn't need that then no reason to report/record it
    You must keep a record of any reportable injury, over-three day injury, disease or dangerous occurrence.
    • McKneff
    • By McKneff 23rd Oct 12, 3:40 PM
    • 36,648 Posts
    • 47,260 Thanks
    McKneff
    • #7
    • 23rd Oct 12, 3:40 PM
    • #7
    • 23rd Oct 12, 3:40 PM
    ~What actually happened to your little girl then.
    make the most of it, we are only here for the weekend.
    and we will never, ever return.
  • ILW
    • #8
    • 23rd Oct 12, 3:46 PM
    • #8
    • 23rd Oct 12, 3:46 PM
    Was ther an actual injury?
  • CAB National Representative
    • #9
    • 23rd Oct 12, 4:41 PM
    • #9
    • 23rd Oct 12, 4:41 PM
    Could someone help me with this, my daughter had an accident in a major department store. Staff where told, and acknowledged by the physical evdience of that happened.

    I was in shock and had a very very upset child, when i have spoke with various people re the accident i was told due to Health and Safety law this should have been recorded.

    I contacted the said store, and got a responce that i refused medical care thus this means it would not go in the book.

    A- I never refused medical care B- I have been told even though we never had medical care their that its their responsibility and they had to record the accident for their own legalalities to cover themselves from being sued.

    Can someone please confirm what ACT it is in law that they have to follow on recording this.
    Originally posted by natalieho
    Hi Natalie - we'd recommend that you contact your local bureau and maybe also try our Consumer Helpline (08454 04 05 06, 9am to 5pm, Mondays to Fridays), to get further advice on this. The owners of stores and supermarkets do have legal responsibilities to ensure people's well-being whilst they're on the premises.
    Official CAB Representative
    I am an official representative of CAB. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to questions on the CAB Board. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. If you believe I’ve broken any rules please report my post to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com as usual"
    • muckybutt
    • By muckybutt 23rd Oct 12, 5:33 PM
    • 3,618 Posts
    • 3,419 Thanks
    muckybutt
    I am not sure that H&SW Section 4 actually covers shops.
    You are using neither plant nor substances provided for their use.

    There is a general duty of care by the premises owner and their employees for all visitors

    There is no mandatory requirement to complete an accident book entry in this situation, however, in our highly litigious society it would make sense to have a record.
    Originally posted by !!!!!!!
    I was using that as a highlight to say they have a duty of care to non employees, agree though could have just referred to RIDDOR.

    The injuries you must record are here. Which is basically anything that needs hospital treatment. If it doesn't need that then no reason to report/record it
    Originally posted by !!!!!!!
    The link you have done above is for REPORTABLE injuries which in this case they would not be.

    "These 'responsible persons' must record and report certain incidents, injuries, diseases and dangerous occurrences involving employees, self-employed workers and members of the public."

    The injury sustained must be recorded, and only certain injuries etc are reportable - its there in black and white.
    You may click thanks if you found my advice useful
  • archived user
    Sorry, I read 'record and report' as a combined action for certain injuries, not record all injuries and only report certain ones.

    HSE Guidance
    You must keep a record of:
    ■ any reportable death, injury, occupational disease or dangerous
    occurrence; and
    ■ all occupational accidents and injuries that result in a worker being away from
    work or incapacitated for more than three consecutive days (not counting
    the day of the accident but including any weekends or other rest days).
    which seems to confirm that 'record and report' are a combined process

    Recording is an ancillary function of RIDDOR whose primary purpose is to lay down the requirements for REPORTING injuries, disease etc

    This goes back to the duty of care element of H&SW and the common sense approach to put it in the accident book in case of litigation.
    Last edited by mugwump; 23-10-2012 at 5:49 PM.
    • Clifford_Pope
    • By Clifford_Pope 24th Oct 12, 12:10 PM
    • 4,312 Posts
    • 5,255 Thanks
    Clifford_Pope
    The accident book is for recording reportable accidents, ie where someone suffers death, severe injury, or needs hospital treatment.

    An incident is not a reportable accident, but an occurance where first aid is administered. Companies are not obliged to record these, but it is difficult to discharge their duty of monitoring health and safety compliance if they do not.
    Companies may do this by keeping a separate incident book, but often the same book is used, loosely referred to as the "accident book".

    So if you were not seriously injured, and refused first aid, then it was not an accident, not an incident, and not recordable unless they chose to do so.
  • pete50
    A similar case has just happened to my mother,of which i would be grateful for some advice.last week she was shopping in a local supermarket when she fell over a pipe which was sticking out from a fridge.she reported it when she got to the tillpoint,to which the employee ignored her.
    The day after she was in pain and had a badly bruised eye from where she had fell.she rang the store to which she was then diverted to head office and explained what had happened.they apologised and said that the accident book at the very least should of been completed for this.Just today she's received a letter from the store chain apologising for any inconvenience and that the store manager filled the accident book in at the time (which is a lie,as no details where given or manager present).I feel strongly about this as its implying my mother is telling lies when its the store manager doing this. Any ideas??
  • Wywth
    A similar case has just happened to my mother,of which i would be grateful for some advice.last week she was shopping in a local supermarket when she fell over a pipe which was sticking out from a fridge.she reported it when she got to the tillpoint,to which the employee ignored her.
    The day after she was in pain and had a badly bruised eye from where she had fell.she rang the store to which she was then diverted to head office and explained what had happened.they apologised and said that the accident book at the very least should of been completed for this.Just today she's received a letter from the store chain apologising for any inconvenience and that the store manager filled the accident book in at the time (which is a lie,as no details where given or manager present).I feel strongly about this as its implying my mother is telling lies when its the store manager doing this. Any ideas??
    Originally posted by pete50
    What makes you think the employee ignored your mother when she reported the matter at the till point?

    It that were me, and I thought I was being ignored, I would have demanded to have spoken to a superior there and then.

    In the event, it appears based on what you have posted, that the employee did not ignore your mother but reported the incident which was then duly notarised in the accident book.
  • pete50
    i'm going by the words of my mother who said the member of staff ignored her and carried on serving.does the accident book need the person affected to be present when its completed? or for the persons details to be recorded?
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

1,287Posts Today

7,100Users online

Martin's Twitter