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Health and Safety Laws Re Accident Book

edited 30 November -1 at 12:00AM in Old Threads
14 replies 49K views
nataliehonatalieho Forumite
507 posts
edited 30 November -1 at 12:00AM in Old Threads
Could someone help me with this, my daughter had an accident in a major department store. Staff where told, and acknowledged by the physical evdience of that happened.

I was in shock and had a very very upset child, when i have spoke with various people re the accident i was told due to Health and Safety law this should have been recorded.

I contacted the said store, and got a responce that i refused medical care thus this means it would not go in the book.

A- I never refused medical care B- I have been told even though we never had medical care their that its their responsibility and they had to record the accident for their own legalalities to cover themselves from being sued.

Can someone please confirm what ACT it is in law that they have to follow on recording this.
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Replies

  • muckybuttmuckybutt Forumite
    3.8K posts
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    Healy and safety at work act 1974

    4 General duties of persons concerned with premises to persons other than their employees.E+W+S+N.I.

    (1)This section has effect for imposing on persons duties in relation to those who—
    (a)are not their employees; but
    (b)use non-domestic premises made available to them as a place of work or as a place where they may use plant or substances provided for their use there,
    and applies to premises so made available and other non-domestic premises used in connection with them.
    (2)It shall be the duty of each person who has, to any extent, control of premises to which this section applies or of the means of access thereto or egress therefrom or of any plant or substance in such premises to take such measures as it is reasonable for a person in his position to take to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, that the premises, all means of access thereto or egress therefrom available for use by persons using the premises, and any plant or substance in the premises or, as the case may be, provided for use there, is or are safe and without risks to health.

    However - The Reporting of Injuries, Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations 1995 goes on to say :

    Injuries to people not at work
    You must report injuries to members of the public or people who are not at work if
    they are injured following an accident that arises out of, or in connection with, work
    and are taken from the scene of an accident to hospital for treatment.


    Recording and reporting accidents and ill health at work is a legal requirement under The Reporting of Injuries, Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations 1995 (RIDDOR).
    RIDDOR places a legal duty on:
    • employers
    • self-employed people
    • people in control of premises.
    These 'responsible persons' must record and report certain incidents, injuries, diseases and dangerous occurrences involving employees, self-employed workers and members of the public.

    What do responsible persons have to do?

    Details of all reportable incidents, injuries, diseases and dangerous occurrences must be recorded, including:
    • the date when the report is made
    • the method of reporting
    • the date, time and place of the event
    • personal details of those involved
    • a brief description of the nature of the event or disease.
    Records can be kept in any form but must conform to data protection requirements.

    So because your daughter didnt need medical assistance they are not legally bound to report it under RIDDOR, however it does require them to record the incident in their accident book by LAW.



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  • Thank you so much Muckybutt, so if i was writing back to them which part would i quote that they had a legal obligation to record it.

    I just wanted to make sure it was recorded but got such a snotty letter back, when what happened to my daughter was pretty horrific which took 30 minutes in store (with staff) to stop her crying :( that i want them to know it IS something they needed to record.
  • muckybuttmuckybutt Forumite
    3.8K posts
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    Quote the RIDDOR 1995 Act.

    copy and paste :

    Recording and reporting accidents and ill health at work is a legal requirement under The Reporting of Injuries, Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations 1995 (RIDDOR).
    RIDDOR places a legal duty on:
    • employers
    • self-employed people
    • people in control of premises.
    These 'responsible persons' must record and report certain incidents, injuries, diseases and dangerous occurrences involving employees, self-employed workers and members of the public.

    What do responsible persons have to do?


    Details of all reportable incidents, injuries, diseases and dangerous occurrences must be recorded, including:
    • the date when the report is made
    • the method of reporting
    • the date, time and place of the event
    • personal details of those involved
    • a brief description of the nature of the event or disease.
    Records can be kept in any form but must conform to data protection requirements.



    Should they not do that then contact the Health and Safety Executive.
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  • SystemSystem
    177.8K posts
    10,000 Posts Name Dropper
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    I am not sure that H&SW Section 4 actually covers shops.
    You are using neither plant nor substances provided for their use.

    There is a general duty of care by the premises owner and their employees for all visitors

    There is no mandatory requirement to complete an accident book entry in this situation, however, in our highly litigious society it would make sense to have a record.
  • SystemSystem
    177.8K posts
    10,000 Posts Name Dropper
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    muckybutt wrote: »
    must record and report certain incidents, injuries, diseases and dangerous occurrences involving employees, self-employed workers and members of the public.

    The injuries you must record are here. Which is basically anything that needs hospital treatment. If it doesn't need that then no reason to report/record it
    You must keep a record of any reportable injury, over-three day injury, disease or dangerous occurrence.
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  • McKneffMcKneff Forumite
    38.4K posts
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts
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    ~What actually happened to your little girl then.
    make the most of it, we are only here for the weekend.
    and we will never, ever return.
  • ILWILW
    18.3K posts
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    Was ther an actual injury?
  • CAB_National_RepresentativeCAB_National_Representative Organisation Representatives - Private Messages may not be monitored
    220 posts
    natalieho wrote: »
    Could someone help me with this, my daughter had an accident in a major department store. Staff where told, and acknowledged by the physical evdience of that happened.

    I was in shock and had a very very upset child, when i have spoke with various people re the accident i was told due to Health and Safety law this should have been recorded.

    I contacted the said store, and got a responce that i refused medical care thus this means it would not go in the book.

    A- I never refused medical care B- I have been told even though we never had medical care their that its their responsibility and they had to record the accident for their own legalalities to cover themselves from being sued.

    Can someone please confirm what ACT it is in law that they have to follow on recording this.

    Hi Natalie - we'd recommend that you contact your local bureau and maybe also try our Consumer Helpline (08454 04 05 06, 9am to 5pm, Mondays to Fridays), to get further advice on this. The owners of stores and supermarkets do have legal responsibilities to ensure people's well-being whilst they're on the premises.
    Official CAB Representative
    I am an official representative of CAB. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to questions on the CAB Board. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. If you believe I’ve broken any rules please report my post to [email protected] as usual"
  • muckybuttmuckybutt Forumite
    3.8K posts
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    !!!!!! wrote: »
    I am not sure that H&SW Section 4 actually covers shops.
    You are using neither plant nor substances provided for their use.

    There is a general duty of care by the premises owner and their employees for all visitors

    There is no mandatory requirement to complete an accident book entry in this situation, however, in our highly litigious society it would make sense to have a record.

    I was using that as a highlight to say they have a duty of care to non employees, agree though could have just referred to RIDDOR.
    !!!!!! wrote: »
    The injuries you must record are here. Which is basically anything that needs hospital treatment. If it doesn't need that then no reason to report/record it

    The link you have done above is for REPORTABLE injuries which in this case they would not be.

    "These 'responsible persons' must record and report certain incidents, injuries, diseases and dangerous occurrences involving employees, self-employed workers and members of the public."

    The injury sustained must be recorded, and only certain injuries etc are reportable - its there in black and white.
    You may click thanks if you found my advice useful
  • edited 23 October 2012 at 5:49PM
    SystemSystem
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    edited 23 October 2012 at 5:49PM
    Sorry, I read 'record and report' as a combined action for certain injuries, not record all injuries and only report certain ones.

    HSE Guidance
    You must keep a record of:
    ■ any reportable death, injury, occupational disease or dangerous
    occurrence; and
    ■ all occupational accidents and injuries that result in a worker being away from
    work or incapacitated for more than three consecutive days (not counting
    the day of the accident but including any weekends or other rest days).
    which seems to confirm that 'record and report' are a combined process

    Recording is an ancillary function of RIDDOR whose primary purpose is to lay down the requirements for REPORTING injuries, disease etc

    This goes back to the duty of care element of H&SW and the common sense approach to put it in the accident book in case of litigation.
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