HTB transfer to Lifetime ISA - gone wrong!
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bowlhead99 wrote: »I don't see that you can say that the first HL response is 'incorrect'. It is what they are telling people who ask (well, what they told Plus, and what they did to OP). So presumably it is a policy, no?
If you mean it's not correct as a matter of law and regulation that an HTB ISA can't be transferred into a LISA other than "in full with closure of the HTB"; HL are presumably only commenting on their own products that their customers are enquiring about. They're not qualified to comment on what other people might have on offer and their goal is not to set you up with a rival product. Some providers don't offer LISA funding by way of transfer in. The vast majority don't offer LISAs at all. So the "correctness" should be taken in context of their own products and policies.
The first answer from HL is clearly incorrect as it contradicts the second answer and the HL website explains that a transfer of only previous year HTB contributions is possible. The first answer was not based on HL policy but possibly a staff training issue.
Alex0 -
Well. she just came off the phone from Hargreaves Lansdown and it doesn't look like they were even addressing the issue!
On the first call she was told that only a full transfer was possible - despite the form having a box to be ticked for full transfer (which wasn't ticked). She was then told that it wouldn't matter that she was over the £4000 in this tax year, took this as correct and ended the call!
I see a lot of comments on these forums about how wonderful HL customer service is and how ideally suited they are to new investors. I have always been sceptical about this (I have never used them as they charge far too much - the situation is different with the limited availability of LISAs). This information, however, is quite astounding. If that is the level of expertise amongst their customer advisers then they need to invest pretty heavily in training.
It is disgraceful that they could get something like that so wrong.Five minutes later I got her to call back for confirmation because obviously it states everywhere that the max is £4000. The second operator also said it would be fine because there is "no limit for transfers from previous years" - despite being clearly told that the amount in the HTB was £4086 at 5/4/17 and the amount in the Lifetime ISA is currently £8361 after the transfer in ie £275 over for this tax year.
It gets worse! To have one ignorant adviser may be regarded as a misfortune; to have two looks like carelessness.As I'm writing this the second operator has called back to say he's now unsure if the information he gave is correct and he's passing it on to the transfers team!
At least he called back. It still doesn't inspire confidence and reassure you that the high fees have been well spent!Will obviously have to wait to see what they come back with - staffing is low because of the weather. I'm glad he called back and hopefully it'll be sorted out but we've lost confidence in Hargreaves Lansdown slightly.
I don't blame you. The problem is their only real rival is AJ Bell (other than Nutmeg, which is a different kind of proposition) and their £1.50 trading charge makes a monthly payment in quite an expensive way of running a LISA.Just realised she has a Nationwide current account already and can open a regular saver :T.
That's good, so she can benefit from 5% interest and not miss the HTB ISA.0 -
ValiantSon wrote: »Perhaps once it is all sorted it may be worth looking at AJ Bell's alternative offering and transfer there. The big disadvantage of AJ Bell is their £1.50 trading fee.
The AJB trade fee plus the HL exit fee will together make it pretty unattractive to move the LISA. I agree this thread has been an example of how HL customer service have failed this customer. All companies make mistakes but they are judged by the efforts they make to remedy them.
From reading the HL testimonials from other forum posters I was lead to believe they would have done a better job.0 -
Since Halifax won't accept the funds back, the matter is between you and HL. I'd start by calculating what your potential losses are. In other words, by missing out on interest (over N years potentially) and bonuses, how much do you stand to lose? Do that assuming you take remedial action now (eg open a new HTB ISA at whatever today's rate is, so you're only claiming the difference)
When you have that figure, I'd then start by writing a formal complaint to HL (by letter), setting out the situation. I'd make sure the words 'formal complaint' are in there, and say something like:
"If you manage to resolve this complaint by 5 April, I expect you to compensate me by £X for loss of interest. If you don't manage to fix this complaint by 5 April, I will incur further losses of £Y and I will thus expect compensation of £X+Y."
Send this first class signed-for. This will put pressure on HL to sort something out before the deadline, and it means they can't pass any bucks to Halifax. If they don't sort it, the amount of compensation just goes up - entirely their problem, not yours.
If you don't get a sensible reply from their complaints department, don't be afraid to escalate to the FOS.
Edit: also worth asking for them to waive their transfer out/account closure fees, since their service is unsatisfactory.0 -
The AJB trade fee plus the HL exit fee will together make it pretty unattractive to move the LISA. I agree this thread has been an example of how HL customer service have failed this customer. All companies make mistakes but they are judged by the efforts they make to remedy them.
Yes, I thought about what I'd written and changed it before you'd posted your reply. See above.0 -
ValiantSon wrote: »Yes, I thought about what I'd written and changed it before you'd posted your reply. See above.
Yeah I am always editing and improving my replies on reflection too.0 -
Just had a look through the HL site - it's quite different to when I queried them in December. Out of curiosity I downloaded the HTB ISA transfer form and compared it with the form I downloaded then. The forms are almost identical, with the exception of an added deadline to submit forms by 6 March.
However, looking at the form reminded me why I'd asked these questions in the first place. There's a tick box "Please transfer my entire Help to Buy ISA to the Vantage Lifetime ISA". I've done a lot of ISA transferring and usually ISA forms have a list of tick boxes like:- I confirm I want to transfer my ISA from _PROVIDER_
- I agree to your terms and conditions
- Please transfer my whole ISA and close the account
- Please transfer all current year's contributions
- Please transfer all past year's contributions
- Please transfer £__________ from past years' contributions
If you don't tick boxes 1 & 2 and one box out of 3 to 6 they will reject your application. So I read HL's form as if the tick box was compulsory (having the functions of tick boxes 1-3 combined, and options 4-6 were not on the table) and an assertion that full transfers were the only option, which is why I queried it. I see now how it could be read as a 'tick this box if you want to close the previous account, don't tick if you don't'.
This is also why I understood their response "Unfortunately, it's not possible to partially transfer a Help to Buy ISA to Lifetime ISA. The transfer would have to be done in full." to be an indication that partial transfers were not possible - because I was mentally looking for the 'partial transfer' box on the form and the reply suggested it wasn't possible. My followup was mostly to make them think through the implications of what they said in the context of LISAs (where, as we've established, not allowing partial transfers may cause a breach of the rules - in my case because I already had a LISA elsewhere).
If you look at HL's normal ISA transfer form there's a single tickbox ("Please transfer my entire Cash ISA to the Vantage Stocks & Shares ISA.") and a note:Hargreaves_Lansdown wrote:Q. Can I transfer part of my ISA?
A. Some providers will allow a partial transfer; please check this directly with your provider or contact our Helpdesk on 0117 900 9000. To transfer part of a holding only please attach a clear, signed covering letter to your completed transfer form, stating you wish to make a partial transfer and detailing exactly which holdings you wish to transfer.
This note is absent on the LISA transfer form (which doesn't have a second notes page). The note is probably aimed at S&S ISA transfers ('please transfer only 123 shares of XYZ') but it applies to cash ISAs nonetheless - their form has no ability to specify partial transfers of cash ISAs either.
Now I see both ways it could be read, it's even clearer they screwed up.0 -
Just a quick update on this - the full bonus has been paid to my daughter's Lifetime ISA today :j.
She sent no fewer than 3 secure messages but when HL didn't make any response decided to wait and see what would happen.
It's all worked out (apart from the closure of the Halifax HTB ISA) and she's actually made a gain of around £45 in extra bonus payment.
Overall we're not impressed by the service from Hargreaves Lansdown despite it working out okay in the end. Their complete lack of communication after both phone calls and secure messages was very unexpected. She's decided to move the Lifetime ISA elsewhere so that will be the next decision!0
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