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  • FIRST POST
    • Former MSE Wendy
    • By Former MSE Wendy 24th Jul 14, 1:04 PM
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    Former MSE Wendy
    Individual Electoral Registration changes voting registration
    • #1
    • 24th Jul 14, 1:04 PM
    Individual Electoral Registration changes voting registration 24th Jul 14 at 1:04 PM
    The way we register to vote in England and Wales has changed and will change in Scotland from 19th September 2014.

    The change means, rather than one person registering all members of a household each individual will need to register themselves.

    You need to register in order to be able to vote

    If you arent registered, you dont get a say on who represents you.

    It can also help boost your credit score as if you're not on the electoral roll it's unlikely you'll get accepted for credit. This is because credit reference agencies use the register to confirm where you live in order to counteract fraud.

    How to register

    You can register to vote online at www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Or if youre unsure whether you are already registered under the new system, contact your local electoral registration staff via the www.aboutmyvote.co.uk site.

    Do I need to do this?

    Even if you were registered in the past, you may need to register again, particularly if youve moved in the last 18 months, so do check.

    Read More

    Read more about the changes in our 60 Seconds... on changes to the electoral roll
    Last edited by Former MSE Wendy; 01-10-2014 at 11:57 AM.
Page 3
    • GingerBob
    • By GingerBob 14th Aug 14, 4:08 PM
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    GingerBob
    There's been plenty of dodgy stuff about false postal vote registration and ballot box stuffing going on and I'm sure there is unreported stuff. I would rather show an ID to prove who I am and that I am entitled to vote rather than people just wandering in and doing it. There are also stories in the press about people sitting tests for other people or those turning up in a full face veil you've got no idea who the person is (like that guy who escaped a TPim order hiding in a burkha!) - whether for a test or voting

    Electoral fraud in 2014 covering 16 areas:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/23/police-open-inquiries-allegations-electoral-fraud-uk

    False voting in Bradford in 2010

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/sep/06/men-jailed-attempted-postal-vote-fraud

    More of a general review from 2013

    http://www.democraticaudit.com/?p=1870

    Burkha story:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24886807
    Originally posted by Nasqueron
    Not sure what the Burkha story has to do with it. The rest are concerned with postal vote fraud. It's interesting that the big relaxation on postal voting, which has led to this fraud, was brought about by and large by the Electoral Commission. This fraud is nothing to do with imposters turning up at the polling station, the instances of which, I suspect, are vanishingly small in number.

    So the EC, having screwed up big time with postal voting, now want to introduce the Northern Ireland model into the rest of the UK. They want to do this to solve a problem that they caused, but which affects a different element of the process. I wouldn't pay them in washers!
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 14th Aug 14, 7:25 PM
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    Nick_C
    I looked at that. There's no academic research whatsoever in the document. It's really just a massive opinion piece.
    Originally posted by GingerBob
    Given the secrecy requirements surrounding elections, its hard to imagine what sort of academic research could be carried out. I think the expert opinions of the people who administer elections is as good as you are going to get.
    • GingerBob
    • By GingerBob 15th Aug 14, 9:30 AM
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    GingerBob
    Given the secrecy requirements surrounding elections, its hard to imagine what sort of academic research could be carried out. I think the expert opinions of the people who administer elections is as good as you are going to get.
    Originally posted by Nick_C
    As noted, these "experts" are the ones who've screwed up big time on the postal voting process.

    Are vast numbers of people turning up at polling stations to fraudulently vote? I very much doubt it, but I'll defer to any research/evidence which shows they are. EC - do you have such evidence?
    Last edited by GingerBob; 15-08-2014 at 5:10 PM. Reason: copy edit
    • Nasqueron
    • By Nasqueron 15th Aug 14, 9:33 AM
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    Nasqueron
    The people who took part in the consultation were listed at the bottom of that report in the appendix - work was carried out in 2 phases, including all political parties and various independent groups.
  • Electoral Commission
    i would like to know what will happen to me if i refuse to disclose my date of birth and NI number. both of which i feel uneasy about handing out just to vote (something i dont do anyway).

    thanks for any replies..
    Originally posted by eebyegum
    Hi eebyegum,

    Under the new system people need to provide a few more details about themselves to register these are date of birth and National Insurance number. These details are checked against government records to verify the persons identity. The purpose of this is to make the system more secure.

    Where an application is made online, the local council will not see the national insurance number. Where an application is made on paper, or directly with the local council, the national insurance number must be redacted by no later than the day that would be 13 months from the date the application was determined. It is recommended that the date of birth is treated in the same way.

    If an elector receives an invitation to register letter but refuses to provide their date of birth or national insurance number the application may be refused. Ultimately if a person fails to respond to invitations to register, they can be issued a requirement to register. If they still fail to register they could be subject to a 80 fine.

    Thanks,

    Electoral Commission
    Official Organisation Representative
    Im the official organisation rep for the Electoral Commission. MSE has given permission for me to post letting you know about relevant and useful info. You can see my name on the organisations with permission to post list. If you believe I've broken the Forum Rules please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. This does NOT imply any form of approval of my organisation by MSE
    • usefulmale
    • By usefulmale 15th Aug 14, 5:09 PM
    • 2,450 Posts
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    usefulmale
    Hi eebyegum,

    Under the new system people need to provide a few more details about themselves to register these are date of birth and National Insurance number. These details are checked against government records to verify the persons identity. The purpose of this is to make the system more secure.

    Where an application is made online, the local council will not see the national insurance number. Where an application is made on paper, or directly with the local council, the national insurance number must be redacted by no later than the day that would be 13 months from the date the application was determined. It is recommended that the date of birth is treated in the same way.

    If an elector receives an invitation to register letter but refuses to provide their date of birth or national insurance number the application may be refused. Ultimately if a person fails to respond to invitations to register, they can be issued a requirement to register. If they still fail to register they could be subject to a 80 fine.

    Thanks,

    Electoral Commission
    Originally posted by Electoral Commission
    Are you saying that if a person just keeps sending their details WITHOUT NI number and DOB, then all that will happen is that the application may be refused?
    • GingerBob
    • By GingerBob 15th Aug 14, 5:14 PM
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    GingerBob
    Are you saying that if a person just keeps sending their details WITHOUT NI number and DOB, then all that will happen is that the application may be refused?
    Originally posted by usefulmale
    Well, as usual, they couldn't help pointing you to the financial penalty. The whole thing is yet another own goal by the Electoral Commission. Surely their number 1 remit is to encourage greater voter participation. So how are they doing this? 1) They are making registering more difficult, 2) they are proposing to make voting more difficult.
    • Somerset
    • By Somerset 15th Aug 14, 5:44 PM
    • 3,556 Posts
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    Somerset
    .

    If an elector receives an invitation to register letter but refuses to provide their date of birth or national insurance number the application may be refused. Ultimately if a person fails to respond to invitations to register, they can be issued a requirement to register. If they still fail to register they could be subject to a 80 fine.
    Originally posted by Electoral Commission

    I know you are toeing the party line here, but can you be absolutely precise please.


    ''may be refused''

    The dob and NI number is either an absolute requirement or not. MAY implies the registration CAN be accepted without this information being supplied. So is it an absolute requirement or not and WILL refusal to supply said information DEFINITELY result in a fine ?


    In other words is optionality and convenience being falsely presented as a requirement ?
    • usefulmale
    • By usefulmale 15th Aug 14, 5:57 PM
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    usefulmale
    I agree with you GingerBob and there is NO WAY I am handing over my NI number and DOB. It may not be happening right now, but a few years down the line, the CRAs will be given this info and thats all its for. I will take the fine anyday.

    Somerset - My understanding of what the Electoral Commission have said is that if you supply all your info EXCEPT your NI number and DOB, they MAY refuse the application but will not fine you. If you dont respond to the invitation to register letter, you COULD be subject to an 80 fine. If you supply false info, thats more serious.

    For me, I will respond with the info they already have but they can whistle for my NI number and DOB.
  • fairyweb
    I found this on line, and i quote verbatim. hoping for intelligent discussion along the lines of forums debating car parking fines !

    It is important for you to understand what the form is requesting. This form is to give your consent to the government elected. This is important because it gives your ****full consent**** to any matter. For instance. Thousands of people marched the streets of London in protest against going to war with Iraq. Their efforts were futile as the government already have their consent as they have fill in the election enrolment form. You cannot give your consent then take it back, that is contradicting yourself. Therefore the government rejects any protest. The government states that they can fine you. This is not true. As it is an act or statute if you like. You are consenting to stand under statue and act by signing the form. The common law or (common sense law) states that it is unlawful for anyone to force your consent. This is known as fraud. No government act or statute can override or conflict with common law. If they come to your door again ask them under what common law does it state that you must consent to filling in this form as you have not consented to act or statute you only stand under common law, (the word must in law means you may, as it cannot conflict with common law which states you have the right of choice). If they say it is an act then ask them for evidence of your consent to standing under that act. For in common law *here say* does not stand ground. For instance. If I accuse someone of committing an offence to the police, the police will not act and arrest that individual without evidence. As it is only *here say*. If you have never filled in this form then you are exempt from standing under statute or acts and the police cannot lawfully arrest you for the act they accuse you of violating by common law. I myself have not consented to this. As I have seen the implications of what governments do with your consent. For one Hitler used the consent of his people to murder thousands of Jews. In the UK we are now at war with Iraq. (apparently not for the oil) lol . They also sold the national grid (the electricity supply) to private companies as so they can charge you more for your electricity to benefit a company or themselves. They have sold our water supply too.
    This is the most important part. They are wanting your consent so you cant deny if they want to kick you out of your home or worse as you have consented. The truth is your full consent is *******anything***** they choose to do. And I dont trust anyone with my full consent. If 10% of the population have not filled in this form the government have broken the common law by selling the national grid as they have assumed they have your consent. You are not born into a world that states there must be a government. That is why this form exists. Or you could just use your passport to vote...
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 16th Aug 14, 2:41 PM
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    Thrugelmir
    For me, I will respond with the info they already have but they can whistle for my NI number and DOB.
    Originally posted by usefulmale
    No doubt you'll be moaning at a later date on MSE about your inability to arrange a mortgage or obtain a car purchase loan.
    there really is no such thing as the future, singular. There are only multiple, unforeseeable futures, which will never lose their capacity to take us by surprise.
    ― Niall Ferguson
    • usefulmale
    • By usefulmale 16th Aug 14, 3:44 PM
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    usefulmale
    No doubt you'll be moaning at a later date on MSE about your inability to arrange a mortgage or obtain a car purchase loan.
    Originally posted by Thrugelmir
    Don't need a mortgage and I pay cash for everything. I dont give a fat damn about my imaginary credit score.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 16th Aug 14, 3:56 PM
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    Thrugelmir
    Don't need a mortgage and I pay cash for everything. I dont give a fat damn about my imaginary credit score.
    Originally posted by usefulmale
    If you pay cash then no problem. Your second comment misses the point entirely.
    there really is no such thing as the future, singular. There are only multiple, unforeseeable futures, which will never lose their capacity to take us by surprise.
    ― Niall Ferguson
    • GingerBob
    • By GingerBob 16th Aug 14, 4:14 PM
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    • 1,657 Thanks
    GingerBob
    For me, I will respond with the info they already have but they can whistle for my NI number and DOB.
    Originally posted by usefulmale
    I think that is good advice. I wouldn't, however, expect a definitive answer from the EC about how they would view such a stance.

    The NI number has a specific purpose. The scope creep which now sees it used for something else is potentially dangerous and could put us on the road, yet again, to a national identity card.
    • usefulmale
    • By usefulmale 16th Aug 14, 4:31 PM
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    usefulmale
    If you pay cash then no problem. Your second comment misses the point entirely.
    Originally posted by Thrugelmir
    What IS the point then?
    • foofi22
    • By foofi22 18th Aug 14, 12:37 PM
    • 2,037 Posts
    • 1,327 Thanks
    foofi22
    I agree with you GingerBob and there is NO WAY I am handing over my NI number and DOB. It may not be happening right now, but a few years down the line, the CRAs will be given this info and thats all its for. I will take the fine anyday.

    Somerset - My understanding of what the Electoral Commission have said is that if you supply all your info EXCEPT your NI number and DOB, they MAY refuse the application but will not fine you. If you dont respond to the invitation to register letter, you COULD be subject to an 80 fine. If you supply false info, thats more serious.

    For me, I will respond with the info they already have but they can whistle for my NI number and DOB.
    Originally posted by usefulmale
    Could you explain why you are so against providing you DOB and NI number?
    Thanks
    • Lakeuk
    • By Lakeuk 18th Aug 14, 1:20 PM
    • 1,067 Posts
    • 562 Thanks
    Lakeuk
    Got my letter from the local council saying they've moved me to the new system with them highlighting that with their open register they'll be able to sell the details on, I'd prefer not to be on the receiving end of marketing rubbish from companies buying my name/address, but if I have myself removed does it mean credit agencies don't get this data and hence potentially could hit my credit rating score - would seem no positive outcome which ever way your go
    • humzan
    • By humzan 18th Aug 14, 2:00 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    humzan
    This is a question for Electoral Commison, I contacted my local council and gave them my DOB & NI number.

    They said they will check this and get back to me.

    I asked that they remove my NI number from their records after info been checcked as they shouldnt have this. They refused-are they able to do this?
    • burgensteen
    • By burgensteen 18th Aug 14, 3:48 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    burgensteen
    Just got my letter today saying ("currently you are listed on the open register"). I have never been asked or agreed to my personal information being held or sold for any other purpose than electoral register!!! which begs the question is this legal?, if so how?
    Can I demand a breakdown of the organizations that bought my information and when under the freedom of information act (as it is my information being sold) + If I opt out what happens to the information that has already been sold.

    Apologies if it seems a bit dramatic but I never give my information to anyone so who the hell are these people to hold and sell my information without my permission.

    Thanks for any nfo
    • usefulmale
    • By usefulmale 18th Aug 14, 6:09 PM
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    usefulmale
    Could you explain why you are so against providing you DOB and NI number?
    Thanks
    Originally posted by foofi22
    Well, for a start foofi, my NI number is for the administration of tax and benefits. It is not an identity number and it certainly is not proof of eligibility to vote. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, it is possible for, say, an American citizen over here working to have an NI number but that citizen is not allowed to vote. That introduces a new method of fraudulent voting into the system that they say is apparently already rife with fraud.

    My DOB is totally irrelevent. On our registration letter, underneath where it asks for you DOB, there are 3 tickboxes, Under 18, 18 to 70 and Over 70. I am happy to tick the relevant box.

    Personally, I think this voter register looks like a foundation stone for another National Identity Database and I don't like that kind of thing.
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