Electric cars
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Coastalwatch wrote: »Not sure if I'm posting this on the correct board but have struggled to find anything more appropriate. I've an ageing deisel powered Ford Focus(ten years 75k miles) which has been brilliant but am thinking to replace. Electric(second hand) seems a possible choice especially as we have two vehicles, so can use the other for any long distances. We are retired with a mix of local journeys for school run etc and longer distances for holidays etc. I'm also keen on the idea of being self sufficient in generating electricity and considering combining the two. Our bungalow has roof of some 50 sq metres with a 22 degree pitch and being 20 degrees east of south facing. I'm thinking of filling the entire roof with panels in order to generate the max I can. On a good day in summer it could return 35kwh so I don't see a problem in supplying houehold needs(7k/day) and keeping the EV topped up. Am seeking quotations for systems of 4k only and the max that can be acheived also. Presumably I'd still get the FIT and export returns on the larger system so it would appear to me to be a sound financial investment. Am I looking through rose tinted glasses?
Hiya, if you want to chat more about PV systems, batteries and linking to EV's then there are a lot of PV'ers on the Green & Ethical forum, and PV FAQ's (see my auto-sig) for info and a quick jump to the G&E board.
You can fit as much PV as you like, the FiT pays the same rate for 0-10kWp systems. If your inverter can export more than 3.68kW, then you'll need to ask for permission beforehand from your local DNO, but if capped at 3.68kW you are fine.
I've been playing with ideas recently, only theories so far, but I have enough export in the better 6 months to charge an EV direct or via a large domestic battery like the Powerwall II. This is based on approx 8,000 miles per year.
In the bottom six months PV + battery will help reduce import and provide heating from a small heat pump (ASHP / air con), and in those 6 months E7 can be used to charge the car.
So let's say 4,000 miles from PV + battery, then 4,000 miles (around 1,000kWh) from E7 at 7p = an annual car 'fuel' bill of approx £70.
Hope these ideas and thoughts help. Please start a thread on the G&E board if you want to explore the PV issue further.Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.
For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.0 -
Official figures are unachievable so why publish utter rubbish, if I could get half the stated average I would be happy!
Did you read my explanation? They ARE achievable. Long journeys ARE also achievable. But not at the same time! That's a defining feature of a hybrid.I leased the car based on 19k miles per year, it doesn't take a genius to work out that on this mileage I'm not doing local jaunts to the office, I work from home as well!
I agree, you may have been mis-sold. Go back to where you bought it from.does this mean you can drive a hybrid in electric only mode for more than 20 or 30 miles?
Some, yes. i3, definitely (100+ miles). If you buy a hybrid though, expecting to drive 20 miles on electric only all year, you'll be disappointed. Just hit the throttle too hard, turn on the air con, or some other variables, and the engine will kick in.Thanks guys. The BMW does seem to be a heck of a lot cheaper than a Tesla. 37 grand is still a lot of money.
The i3? It's £30k and a lot smaller.I clearly just need to let go of those last few shreds of my grasp of reality and technical understanding
That sarcasm isn't very funny after you mix up Amps and Watts.And why Toyota's spec sheet quoting Ah battery figures (without voltage) is seemingly designed to trip the unwary.
BMW generally quote Amp hours instead of Watt hours too - it's daft and hopefully they'll quit. Most EVs are 400v but as we've discovered, there are exceptions!0 -
"Thanks guys. The BMW does seem to be a heck of a lot cheaper than a Tesla. 37 grand is still a lot of money."
I think that is my quote. I have got myself mixed up on the BMW webpage. Could it have been a model with this fabled range extender which showed as 37 grand?
Also, I take your point about the size.0 -
Hi
Some manufacturers are building a small heater unit into(/around) the battery pack to help with cold weather performance ..
HTH
Z
True but since you cant get soemthing for nothing when it comes to physics, that only has a small mitigating factor. Tesla are probably the most advanced, but Tesla ranges still drop in winter.0 -
David_Aston wrote: »"Thanks guys. The BMW does seem to be a heck of a lot cheaper than a Tesla. 37 grand is still a lot of money."
I think that is my quote. I have got myself mixed up on the BMW webpage. Could it have been a model with this fabled range extender which showed as 37 grand?
Also, I take your point about the size.
Easily, many company car buyers are struggling to keep them under the £40k limit. The £30k figure quoted by almillar would be the bottom of the range model with no range extender and zero add ons.0 -
Yup. There's a fair bit of thermal mass to heat up in a big battery pack - and that consumes electrickery. If they're installing heaters, then I guess the heating loses less range than having the battery cold. Whether that applies to temperate climates such as ours, or just extremes such as Scandinavia/Canada/Northern US...AnotherJoe wrote: »True but since you cant get soemthing for nothing when it comes to physics, that only has a small mitigating factor. Tesla are probably the most advanced, but Tesla ranges still drop in winter.0 -
A question for EV'ers.
I've been watching a you tube channel called Tesla Time News, it's a father and son combo, and between them/family they have a Leaf, Tesla X and a Model 3.
They raised an interesting point that range of around 200-250 miles is fine, and that they think companies aiming for 400 miles, 500 miles etc are missing the point, as 200 miles and cheaper (smaller battery) is a better option for most, especially with fast chargers. I get the impression that once you adapt to an EV, you now longer 'need' to compete with petrol/diesel tank ranges.
Sounds like a good point, but what do I know!Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.
For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.0 -
Martyn1981 wrote: »A question for EV'ers.
I've been watching a you tube channel called Tesla Time News, it's a father and son combo, and between them/family they have a Leaf, Tesla X and a Model 3.
They raised an interesting point that range of around 200-250 miles is fine, and that they think companies aiming for 400 miles, 500 miles etc are missing the point, as 200 miles and cheaper (smaller battery) is a better option for most, especially with fast chargers. I get the impression that once you adapt to an EV, you now longer 'need' to compete with petrol/diesel tank ranges.
Sounds like a good point, but what do I know!
Absolutely. Thnk of it this way: a petrol/diesel car may have a range of 500 miles, but how often do you use this without stopping? For the majority of the people in the UK, the answer is rarely to never. Obviously there will be some exceptions. But in general with an EV, all you care about is "can I get to my destination comfortably without needing a recharge?" and so long as you can charge there, by the time you move on, you're refuelled. And with journeys of 4-500 miles, people tend to stop for a break half way, and thus have the opportunity to recharge then (which is where rapids are handy).
If the next EV I buy has a range of 200 miles (and I think it will) I can't envisage many situations where that's not plenty of range. In the once in a blue-moon situation where it's not, and recharging en route isn't possible, then I would just hire an ICE vehicle. Or take the train.0 -
What is the fundamental difference? Petrol stations are relatively rare and inconvenient whereas literally everywhere but Glastonbury Festival has a 3 pin plug in reach of an extension lead. Yes, a slight exaggeration for those who live in terraces with no frontage, there are particular problems, but convenient range for traditionally fuelled cars is based on the refill being dead time - including a potentially significant detour to fill up.Absolutely. Thnk of it this way: a petrol/diesel car may have a range of 500 miles, but how often do you use this without stopping? For the majority of the people in the UK, the answer is rarely to never. Obviously there will be some exceptions. But in general with an EV, all you care about is "can I get to my destination comfortably without needing a recharge?" and so long as you can charge there, by the time you move on, you're refuelled. And with journeys of 4-500 miles, people tend to stop for a break half way, and thus have the opportunity to recharge then (which is where rapids are handy).
If the next EV I buy has a range of 200 miles (and I think it will) I can't envisage many situations where that's not plenty of range. In the once in a blue-moon situation where it's not, and recharging en route isn't possible, then I would just hire an ICE vehicle. Or take the train.0 -
Martyn1981 wrote: »A question for EV'ers.
I've been watching a you tube channel called Tesla Time News, it's a father and son combo, and between them/family they have a Leaf, Tesla X and a Model 3.
They raised an interesting point that range of around 200-250 miles is fine, and that they think companies aiming for 400 miles, 500 miles etc are missing the point, as 200 miles and cheaper (smaller battery) is a better option for most, especially with fast chargers. I get the impression that once you adapt to an EV, you now longer 'need' to compete with petrol/diesel tank ranges.
Sounds like a good point, but what do I know!
For most people I agree. Certainly for me, when I go to a 250 mile or so range EV in a couple,of years, I'll never have to use a public charge point, all charges will be either at home or at friends over night.
Of course there's always the road warrior type who insist they need to do 400 miles each way journeys every day.
However I think more crucially people don't buy what they need they buy what they think they need so there will be a group who think they need 400 miles just because that's what their ICE does, even if actually they never drive more than 100 miles a day. Hencea market for over long ranges just like people buy large 4x4's for driving in town.
Over time the latter group will see their friends and colleagues moving to EV and spending about 20% of what they do running a car and not having range issues and their attitudes will likely change. Plus in less than 10 or so years time EVs will be substantially cheaper than ICE to buy due to falling resale values of ICE impacting PCP costs.
The other big benefit of 250 mile plus range is less pressure on EV charge points, eg many would never need to use them.0
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