House building on agricultural land

mick1111 · 26 March 2019 at 10:42AM

Hello all, I'm hoping to sample your collective wisdom again.

We're currently renting in a tiny Devon hamlet and really love the area but, unsurprisingly, housing stock is somewhat hard to come by. Ideally, we would love to self-build or convert a barn but we didn't think that finding a suitable plot would be feasible. However, we were talking to our landlord (a farmer) about this after our recent purchase fell through, and it looks like we actually have a couple of options. I was hoping to sound you all out on relative feasibilities before investing too much money, time and energy into developing the ideas.

Option 1: build on a field at the edge of the village. Pros: already in the village but outside of the conservation zone. Easy to connect services (water and electricity; there's no mains drainage here). Major downside: would need to get planning permission for a change of use from agricultural to residential. I read the local development plan and it doesn't seem strictly against development in villages but I reckon this might be a long-shot.

Option 2: convert a Dutch barn that's a little more outside the village, half-way up a big hill. Pros: permitted development should make getting consent via prior notification do-able. Cons: connecting services would be a fair bit trickier. Our landlord thought about converting it herself but didn't want to avoid losing their permitted development rights for 10 years, which would make building on their dairy farm harder.

So, questions: I know that I need to talk to my local planning officer, but I was wondering if anyone has any experience on building a single house on agricultural land? Is this even any point trying to embark on this route?

Does anyone have a rough idea of how expensive it is to connect services across a fairly long distance (600 metres or so), to the nearest £10k? And if we were to buy the land with the barn on it and then made prior notification via class Q, would this still impact my landlord's permitted development rights?

Cakeguts · 26 March 2019 at 12:10PM

You are extremely unlikely to get planning permission. If it was possible someone would have already done it. If the land came with planning permission it would have an much higher price tag.

I am sure that your local farmer would be pleased to sell you a plot of agricultural land at twice its value knowing that there is absolutely no chance that you would ever get permission to build on it. Dutch barn the same. In any case buying a Dutch barn without planning consent would mean that you would finish up with a Dutch barn.

I would suggest that you look at the local council's planning portal and see how many planning applications have been refused that would give you a good idea why no one has done this before.

babyblade41 · 26 March 2019 at 12:12PM

Before moving in January I lived on a small holding with barn and acreage with access road to main road.

Previous owners couldn't even get a change of use to the barn let alone development..

Neighbour again had acreage onto main road and her planning got rejected twice, it cost her a small fortune with architects plus 2 years of her life then gave up.

My MIL lives in 12 acres of agricultural land and the only way they can get permission was to remove the original bungalow and build on the footprint without going above bungalow height and although she has huge concrete outbuildings permission has always been rejected

For me I am happy that it's difficult to build on agricultural land for many reasons but for you have a look at surrounding areas to see if planning has been applied for previously.

I think you will find it next to impossible and certainly not a quick option and if the landowner would have thought about it then changed their mind might tell you the answer , whatever they said their reasons were

The costs to connect services involve many factors so I don't think anyone would be able to give you anywhere near workable figures.

There was no gas on our small holding or the surrounding villages .

You could throw a lot of money at it just to get to planning stage and then chances of it being approved probably unlikely.

The neighbourhood plans should tell you where their preferred sites are and the Hamlet I was in was in no hurry to expand any further .

babyblade41 · 26 March 2019 at 12:14PM

oh and just to reiterate Cakeguts (we must have been replying at the same time) if it aint been done before now then it ain't going ahead in the future

mick1111 · 26 March 2019 at 12:15PM

Thanks for the detailed replies - plenty to think about here. I shall go browsing through the planning portal...

AdrianC · 26 March 2019 at 12:23PM

If, by "Dutch barn", you mean this kind of thing...

...then that still won't count as anything other than new residential on agricultural land, requiring the exact same change-of-use that you'll face with the other plot.

Let's face it, most of the easy-win conversions have gone already, especially in high-demand areas. What's left is what's not been worth doing... That doesn't mean it's impossible. But if you can find something that's previously been residential, then that will make the planning MUCH easier.

You mention the NDP. Has it been fully adopted by referendum? The parish WILL have a target number of new houses. They'll have preferred areas for those. In those areas, you should find it straightforward. Outside, it's not impossible - remember, they probably want to keep the new-build down, so a "windfall" restoration of a derelict building is one less new-build. If it's residential, all the better, but if you can make a good enough case, it should be fine.

In our village, we've had two recently - one on a field, which got rejected out of hand. But the other was of a fairly rough-and-ready wood-and-stone barn, next to other barns converted a few years ago, which has been accepted. Not without some grumbling, sure, but it was accepted... There are also several derelict cottages which would be a very easy win.

tori.k · 26 March 2019 at 1:03PM

Would you qualify for affordable housing? as I know in Cornwall and I believe Devon actually started it, there is a scheme that grants 106 affordable self builds in with exception planning policy, but unsure if it can be done solely or just as a local group build.

Mgman1965 · 26 March 2019 at 1:39PM

Cakeguts wrote: »

You are extremely unlikely to get planning permission. If it was possible someone would have already done it. If the land came with planning permission it would have an much higher price tag.

I am sure that your local farmer would be pleased to sell you a plot of agricultural land at twice its value knowing that there is absolutely no chance that you would ever get permission to build on it. Dutch barn the same. In any case buying a Dutch barn without planning consent would mean that you would finish up with a Dutch barn.

I would suggest that you look at the local council's planning portal and see how many planning applications have been refused that would give you a good idea why no one has done this before.

As above, if it was easy it's been done.

Since just about everything was put online it so easy to find out if things are possibly doable with just a bit of time online, making people like you and landowners way more savvy about lands potential and value.

These days if they own a plot of land they do one of two things.

1/ Go all out and get plans drawn up and permission to build and sell for full alue as building plot.

2/ If lazy, or think it may have future potential for development they sell as "land" but put a 25/30yr value uplift clause if it gets permission to be developed.

mick1111 · 26 March 2019 at 2:22PM

AdrianC wrote: »

If, by "Dutch barn", you mean this kind of thing...

...then that still won't count as anything other than new residential on agricultural land, requiring the exact same change-of-use that you'll face with the other plot.

Yep, that's almost exactly what it looks like. I thought it might be a little too flimsy for permitted development, but perhaps worth talking to the local planning officer? I'm not sure if the local plan has been approved by a referendum. The local plan for this village/hamlet only has a conservation area and flood plain shown, whilst other villages also have a settlement limit and 'housing consultation sites'. If my village plan doesn't have these limits, then would the presumption be that the local plan doesn't envisage any development?

tori.k wrote: »

Would you qualify for affordable housing? as I know in Cornwall and I believe Devon actually started it, there is a scheme that grants 106 affordable self builds in with exception planning policy, but unsure if it can be done solely or just as a local group build.

Nice idea, thanks, but we don't qualify for affordable housing.

AdrianC · 26 March 2019 at 2:30PM

mick1111 wrote: »

Yep, that's almost exactly what it looks like. I thought it might be a little too flimsy for permitted development, but perhaps worth talking to the local planning officer?

Always. And the parish council - either officially, or just have a chat with the councillors.

I'm not sure if the local plan has been approved by a referendum.

If you can't find any result online, then it hasn't been. Which means it carries no mandatory weight.

If my village plan doesn't have these limits, then would the presumption be that the local plan doesn't envisage any development?

No, because the requirement comes down from the district/county council, whose requirement comes down from national government. The more out in the boonies you are, the lower the number will be, but it will almost certainly not be zero.

The requirement doesn't mean they will be forced to develop - it just means they can't easily object on principle. It still takes somebody to buy land, submit PP, and actually want to build - whether for themselves or for sale.

babyblade41 · 26 March 2019 at 2:33PM

Just one word of caution, planners aren't happy in allowing Dutch barns turned into domestic dwellings.

I was in Hereford and it was totally frowned on unless it was in the interest of the area .

PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

House building on agricultural land

Comments

Categories

Get our FREE Weekly email full of deals & guides - and it’s spam-free