House building on agricultural land

SmashedAvacado

I can't believe this thread is as long as it is without anyone mentioning the requirements of Class Q in detail. Basically you need to show a number of things in order for the barn to be suited to permitted development - if you can do this, then you will get permission. if you can't then you wont. Once you have your PD rights, you may find it easier to get permission for an alternative design as the planners will be resigned to the fact that a dwelling will be built

Davesnave

babyblade41 wrote: »

I was in Hereford and it was totally frowned on unless it was in the interest of the area .

I passed one yesterday, down here in Devon. It probably looked better than the eyesore it replaced, but I wasnt sold on the design.

That's the down-side with many modern barn conversions IMO; the proportions are all wrong. In a sensible country, we'd allow redistribution of the the internal volume and insist on an appearance closer to the local vernacular styles.

Anyway, I'm going against the grain here. While some redundant agricultural barns haven't been converted yet, that's not to say it isn't possible, but probably because they haven't been redundant long enough. I should know, because I own one that needs another year on the clock, just to make sure. The relevant legislation only hit the statute books about 7 years ago and councils interpreted it very individually at first.

The rules for Section Q development are a little more complex than some are suggesting though; it certainly isn't 'permitted development' of the type that farmers just need to notify. However, the range of building types that have passed does include Dutch barn type structures, though it probably helps to have a few breeze block walls too.

babyblade41

Davesnave.. I hate barn conversions and must say haven't seen many dutch barn conversions... I did have one a few years ago and had to apply to take some of the roof off, but that was in Wales .. it was a b*****y eye saw but alas no change of use for me and didn't want to live in it either

I think the one in Hereford was converted but as a tourist attraction'

Owain_Moneysaver

mick1111 wrote: »

Does anyone have a rough idea of how expensive it is to connect services across a fairly long distance (600 metres or so), to the nearest £10k?

Is that 600 metres across your own land (in which case you can dig the trench yourself) or across/along the public highway, which will cost a lot more.

https://www.westernpower.co.uk/interactive-costing-tool gives £33k for 600 metres, but £800 for a 5 metre connection.

Connection Only South West Water/Bournemouth Water carry out connection to main, connection to external service pipe, boundary box and meter installation, all in a pre-excavated trench.
The applicant is responsible for pipe laying, opening, closing and if necessary permanently reinstating the trench to the water main, and depth of boundary box to finished surface level.
For 1st connection only up to and including 32mm diameter Per Connection £151.00

Standard connections up to 32mm diameter and trench work
Where South West Water/Bournemouth Water undertakes the
opening and closing of a trench up to 5 metres in length
Per Connection £1255.00

https://www.southwestwater.co.uk/siteassets/document-repository/charges/new-connections-and-developer-services-charging-arrangement-2019_20.pdf

Similar for sewage (if available). If you do not have mains drainage this could kill your project as compliance with environmental regulations for private drainage may be difficult/impossible/expensive in your location.

ProDave

That remote you would be unlikely to get mains drainage. There is nothing wrong with installing a small waste treatment plant, that is what most rural self builds do (and what we have done)

Electricity and water connections may be VERY expensive. Also you will need decent vehicle access, if it's just a dirt track, the cost of surfacing 600 metres to a decent standard will not be cheap.

I really don't think a Dutch barn is suitable for "conversion and even if you closed in the sides and left the tin roof it would be a horrible looking house.

mick1111

Owain_Moneysaver wrote: »

Is that 600 metres across your own land (in which case you can dig the trench yourself) or across/along the public highway, which will cost a lot more.

https://www.westernpower.co.uk/interactive-costing-tool gives £33k for 600 metres, but £800 for a 5 metre connection.



https://www.southwestwater.co.uk/siteassets/document-repository/charges/new-connections-and-developer-services-charging-arrangement-2019_20.pdf

Similar for sewage (if available). If you do not have mains drainage this could kill your project as compliance with environmental regulations for private drainage may be difficult/impossible/expensive in your location.

Thanks for these links! Drainage would indeed be a private treatment plant, which is pretty standard here.

Davesnave

This is a Dutch barn conversion in Mid Devon, now up for rent:


Farmers are getting conversions like this done, then renting them out as a means of diversifying their income. This is 4 beds and £1200 p/m.

AdrianC

Davesnave wrote: »

This is a Dutch barn conversion in Mid Devon, now up for rent:

...which proves the point made about "attractive"

Davesnave

AdrianC wrote: »

...which proves the point made about "attractive"

At least there's enough height. With Atcost type barns there's a great danger of ending up with an oversized bungalow.

babyblade41

Davesnave wrote: »

This is a Dutch barn conversion in Mid Devon, now up for rent:


Farmers are getting conversions like this done, then renting them out as a means of diversifying their income. This is 4 beds and £1200 p/m.

Proves my point, they are b*****y hideous after conversion then :rotfl:

It maybe OK inside but really ?? I think I preferred the roofless one I had