PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

Hello Forumites! In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non-MoneySaving matters are not permitted per the Forum rules. While we understand that mentioning house prices may sometimes be relevant to a user's specific MoneySaving situation, we ask that you please avoid veering into broad, general debates about the market, the economy and politics, as these can unfortunately lead to abusive or hateful behaviour. Threads that are found to have derailed into wider discussions may be removed. Users who repeatedly disregard this may have their Forum account banned. Please also avoid posting personally identifiable information, including links to your own online property listing which may reveal your address. Thank you for your understanding.

"Rent" friends house without agreement

Options
abc123456
abc123456 Posts: 352 Forumite
edited 7 May 2018 at 2:52PM in House buying, renting & selling
The situation is this....a good friend bought a house on a country estate but is now unable to reside there. He wants to rent it out to us but there is a clause written into his deeds stating that he is not permitted to rent it out.
From what I can see, renting out a property means tenancy agreements etc, which would break the above clause.

Is it lawful for him to "rent" me the property "unofficially", without causing a trail of official tenancy agreement etc paperwork?

I mean, surely a friend can allow another friend to live in his house for some payment in the knowledge that each will respect each others rights?
«1

Comments

  • Pixie5740
    Pixie5740 Posts: 14,515 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Options
    abc123456 wrote: »
    The situation is this....a good friend bought a house on a country estate but is now unable to reside there. He wants to rent it out to us but there is a clause written into his deeds stating that he is not permitted to rent it out.
    From what I can see, renting out a property means tenancy agreements etc, which would break the above clause.

    Is it lawful for him to "rent" me the property "unofficially", without causing a trail of official tenancy agreement etc paperwork?

    Using quotation marks does not alter the fact that if you pay rent for exclusive occupation of all or part of the property a tenancy agreement will exist. A tenancy agreement need not be written down just paying rent to live there will create a Contractual Periodic Tenancy in England and Wales and your landlord must comply with all relevant housing legislation.
  • PasturesNew
    PasturesNew Posts: 70,698 Forumite
    Name Dropper Photogenic First Anniversary First Post
    Options
    There are two answers, which is applicable depends on your circumstances and common decency/morality.

    Yes: If you are trustworthy and honest and your mate is too, then there's no reason for you not to "help them out" by renting their place "on the quiet" as you'll not be causing them any trouble with bring poor quality visitors to the home, nor bleating when they ask you to leave for whatever reason and without any "legal/valid" "please leave" notices.
    It would be defrauding the deeds wording, but if you kept your nose clean, didn't stand out and didn't drop them in it, then it'd be "naughty/illegal, but it's all done with a good heart and not being seen as a nuisance"

    No: Technically they could be forced to sell it and you'd be booted out, for breaking the clause in the deeds. They might be evading tax and you might be party to that. There might be insurance issues should it burn down or be robbed or similar. There could be all manner of unexpected nasty ends to the arrangement ....

    So, you pays your money, you takes your choice.
  • Cakeguts
    Cakeguts Posts: 7,627 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    Options
    If you pay to live in someone else's house then you have a tenancy. It doesn't have to be written down to be a tenancy it can be an oral tenancy.

    Basically the deeds of your friend's house say that ony he can live there so if he finds that he can't he will have to sell it.
  • Pixie5740
    Pixie5740 Posts: 14,515 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Options
    abc123456 wrote: »
    I mean, surely a friend can allow another friend to live in his house for some payment in the knowledge that each will respect each others rights?

    :huh:

    Some payment = rent. If you pay rent you will create a tenancy. You and your friend are free to respect each others rights, not that it matters if you don't because the rights of the tenant and rights of the landlord are enshrined in law already.

    You can try to dress it up however you like, your friend will be letting the property to you, you will be paying rent, you will be a tenant, and your friend will be breaching a clause in the deeds.
  • theartfullodger
    theartfullodger Posts: 14,605 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post
    Options
    You are wanting to business with a cheat who doesn't stick to contract terms? What about those good old British traditions of decency, honesty & fair play?
  • hazyjo
    hazyjo Posts: 15,470 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    Options
    I vote sell. Where does the friend plan on living? What's the point in keeping it.
    2023 wins: *must start comping again!*
  • Pixie5740
    Pixie5740 Posts: 14,515 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Options
    Who would enforce such a clause in the deeds? Could your friend not approach them to find out if consent would be given to let the property to you?
  • abc123456
    abc123456 Posts: 352 Forumite
    Options
    Thanks everyone...I thought it wouldnt be easy, if not impossible. I dont really want to be party to cheating anyone or anything, or doing anything illegal. Personally I think the clause situation is awful and my friend should really have looked at that before buying....but, again thank you everyone for your advice and help, I appreciate it.
  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post Combo Breaker
    Options
    And in addition to the clause in the Deeds, there are all the standard legalities of a tenancy.

    As others have said, putting the word 'rent' in inverted comments does not stop it being rent, nor does it mean it is not a tenancy.

    * So the house insurance will be invalid. No pay-out if it burns down.
    * if there's a mortgage, the terms of the loan will be breached too
    * if the 'rent' is not declared to HMRC for income tax, then there's tax evasion
    * and a LL has to provide various documents to the tenant: gas report, EPC, 'How to rent' gov leaflet etc

    * New landlords: advice, information & links
  • xylophone
    xylophone Posts: 44,427 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post
    Options
    He owns the house? Circumstances prevent him from taking up residence?

    Can he allow you to live in as caretakers (advising his insurers of the fact) until he can move in himself?

    Perhaps after he has taken up residence himself and you have moved on, you can treat him to a holiday/ give him a nice present?

    There would be no obligation whatsoever on you to make any such gesture but you could if you wished?
This discussion has been closed.
★ ★ ★ Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 343.3K Banking & Borrowing
  • 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.7K Spending & Discounts
  • 235.3K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 608.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 173.1K Life & Family
  • 248K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards