Individual Electoral Registration – changes voting registration

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  • Nick_C
    Nick_C Posts: 7,459 Forumite
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    GingerBob wrote: »
    I looked at that. There's no academic research whatsoever in the document. It's really just a massive opinion piece.

    Given the secrecy requirements surrounding elections, its hard to imagine what sort of academic research could be carried out. I think the expert opinions of the people who administer elections is as good as you are going to get.
  • GingerBob_3
    GingerBob_3 Posts: 3,659 Forumite
    edited 15 August 2014 at 5:10PM
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    Nick_C wrote: »
    Given the secrecy requirements surrounding elections, its hard to imagine what sort of academic research could be carried out. I think the expert opinions of the people who administer elections is as good as you are going to get.

    As noted, these "experts" are the ones who've screwed up big time on the postal voting process.

    Are vast numbers of people turning up at polling stations to fraudulently vote? I very much doubt it, but I'll defer to any research/evidence which shows they are. EC - do you have such evidence?
  • Nasqueron
    Nasqueron Posts: 8,836 Forumite
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    The people who took part in the consultation were listed at the bottom of that report in the appendix - work was carried out in 2 phases, including all political parties and various independent groups.
  • Electoral_Commission
    Electoral_Commission Posts: 19 Organisation Representative
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    eebyegum wrote: »
    i would like to know what will happen to me if i refuse to disclose my date of birth and NI number. both of which i feel uneasy about handing out just to vote (something i dont do anyway).

    thanks for any replies..
    Hi eebyegum,

    Under the new system people need to provide a few more details about themselves to register – these are date of birth and National Insurance number. These details are checked against government records to verify the person’s identity. The purpose of this is to make the system more secure.

    Where an application is made online, the local council will not see the national insurance number. Where an application is made on paper, or directly with the local council, the national insurance number must be redacted by no later than the day that would be 13 months from the date the application was determined. It is recommended that the date of birth is treated in the same way.

    If an elector receives an invitation to register letter but refuses to provide their date of birth or national insurance number the application may be refused. Ultimately if a person fails to respond to invitations to register, they can be issued a requirement to register. If they still fail to register they could be subject to a £80 fine.

    Thanks,

    Electoral Commission
    Official Organisation Representative
    I’m the official organisation rep for the Electoral Commission. MSE has given permission for me to post letting you know about relevant and useful info. You can see my name on the organisations with permission to post list. If you believe I've broken the Forum Rules please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. This does NOT imply any form of approval of my organisation by MSE
  • usefulmale
    usefulmale Posts: 2,627 Forumite
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    Hi eebyegum,

    Under the new system people need to provide a few more details about themselves to register – these are date of birth and National Insurance number. These details are checked against government records to verify the person’s identity. The purpose of this is to make the system more secure.

    Where an application is made online, the local council will not see the national insurance number. Where an application is made on paper, or directly with the local council, the national insurance number must be redacted by no later than the day that would be 13 months from the date the application was determined. It is recommended that the date of birth is treated in the same way.

    If an elector receives an invitation to register letter but refuses to provide their date of birth or national insurance number the application may be refused. Ultimately if a person fails to respond to invitations to register, they can be issued a requirement to register. If they still fail to register they could be subject to a £80 fine.

    Thanks,

    Electoral Commission

    Are you saying that if a person just keeps sending their details WITHOUT NI number and DOB, then all that will happen is that the application may be refused?
  • GingerBob_3
    GingerBob_3 Posts: 3,659 Forumite
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    usefulmale wrote: »
    Are you saying that if a person just keeps sending their details WITHOUT NI number and DOB, then all that will happen is that the application may be refused?

    Well, as usual, they couldn't help pointing you to the financial penalty. The whole thing is yet another own goal by the Electoral Commission. Surely their number 1 remit is to encourage greater voter participation. So how are they doing this? 1) They are making registering more difficult, 2) they are proposing to make voting more difficult.
  • Somerset
    Somerset Posts: 3,633 Forumite
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    .

    If an elector receives an invitation to register letter but refuses to provide their date of birth or national insurance number the application may be refused. Ultimately if a person fails to respond to invitations to register, they can be issued a requirement to register. If they still fail to register they could be subject to a £80 fine.


    I know you are toeing the party line here, but can you be absolutely precise please.


    ''may be refused''

    The dob and NI number is either an absolute requirement or not. MAY implies the registration CAN be accepted without this information being supplied. So is it an absolute requirement or not and WILL refusal to supply said information DEFINITELY result in a fine ?


    In other words is optionality and convenience being falsely presented as a requirement ?
  • usefulmale
    usefulmale Posts: 2,627 Forumite
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    I agree with you GingerBob and there is NO WAY I am handing over my NI number and DOB. It may not be happening right now, but a few years down the line, the CRAs will be given this info and thats all its for. I will take the fine anyday.

    Somerset - My understanding of what the Electoral Commission have said is that if you supply all your info EXCEPT your NI number and DOB, they MAY refuse the application but will not fine you. If you dont respond to the invitation to register letter, you COULD be subject to an £80 fine. If you supply false info, thats more serious.

    For me, I will respond with the info they already have but they can whistle for my NI number and DOB.
  • fairyweb
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    I found this on line, and i quote verbatim. hoping for intelligent discussion along the lines of forums debating car parking fines !

    It is important for you to understand what the form is requesting. This form is to give your consent to the government elected. This is important because it gives your ****full consent**** to any matter. For instance. Thousands of people marched the streets of London in protest against going to war with Iraq. Their efforts were futile as the government already have their consent as they have fill in the election enrolment form. You cannot give your consent then take it back, that is contradicting yourself. Therefore the government rejects any protest. The government states that they can fine you. This is not true. As it is an act or statute if you like. You are consenting to stand under statue and act by signing the form. The common law or (common sense law) states that it is unlawful for anyone to force your consent. This is known as fraud. No government act or statute can override or conflict with common law. If they come to your door again ask them under what common law does it state that you must consent to filling in this form as you have not consented to act or statute you only stand under common law, (the word must in law means you may, as it cannot conflict with common law which states you have the right of choice). If they say it is an act then ask them for evidence of your consent to standing under that act. For in common law *here say* does not stand ground. For instance. If I accuse someone of committing an offence to the police, the police will not act and arrest that individual without evidence. As it is only *here say*. If you have never filled in this form then you are exempt from standing under statute or acts and the police cannot lawfully arrest you for the act they accuse you of violating by common law. I myself have not consented to this. As I have seen the implications of what governments do with your consent. For one Hitler used the consent of his people to murder thousands of Jews. In the UK we are now at war with Iraq. (apparently not for the oil) lol . They also sold the national grid (the electricity supply) to private companies as so they can charge you more for your electricity to benefit a company or themselves. They have sold our water supply too.
    This is the most important part. They are wanting your consent so you can’t deny if they want to kick you out of your home or worse as you have consented. The truth is your full consent is *******anything***** they choose to do. And I don’t trust anyone with my full consent. If 10% of the population have not filled in this form the government have broken the common law by selling the national grid as they have assumed they have your consent. You are not born into a world that states there must be a government. That is why this form exists. Or you could just use your passport to vote...
  • Thrugelmir
    Thrugelmir Posts: 89,546 Forumite
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    usefulmale wrote: »
    For me, I will respond with the info they already have but they can whistle for my NI number and DOB.

    No doubt you'll be moaning at a later date on MSE about your inability to arrange a mortgage or obtain a car purchase loan.
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