Council tax CCJ - help required

Randombloke · 11 July 2017 at 9:54PM

Gah.

Edi81 - I don't have 'attitude', my first post asked a question that was fairly succinct, I find myself 'defending myself' against all kinds of nonsense thereafter;

worried jim -not an epic fail, I shan't be cowed by having had past financial problems, that's life! I accept my circumstance, am paying my dues, I'm not looking to get rid of the CCJ, just querying if it should appear on my credit reference, it being a council tax issue;

marliepanda - you assume circumstances that are not correct. I'm sure if id ever 'refused' to pay, the council would have had me at a committal hearing, not apply for a charging order.

I thought this forum would be really helpful. Good job there are people like CIS out there to balance out all those who just want to try and score a cheap point and stick the knife in. Good luck to you all, I'll not waste any more of our time asking questions here if its just a shooting gallery..

CIS · 12 July 2017 at 12:23AM

I'm still not convinced it's council tax - in over a decade of working with recovery action it's not something I've ever come across. Council Tax recovery has a very specific recovery process in which the magistrates court deals with it and issues the liability order. The liability order in place of a CCJ but still allows applications for a charging order to be made without having to go for a CCJ. (CP Rules 73.2)

An "Order for Recovery of award" is the result of an application made using form N322 - this is usually used for housing benefit overpayments, not council tax itself. It may be possible it was used for an award of council tax benefit if the local authority in question didn't take the option of recovering via an adjusted council tax bill - it was an option for them to recover via the county court but I've never known any local authority do that as it would be a far more complicated route.

I would recommend that you speak with the council and clarify exactly what has happened with the application.

Craig

Randombloke · 12 July 2017 at 1:19AM

thanks Craig.

Its definitely council tax, it feels to me like they've not correctly processed it - as you rightly say, they had a liability order so could have gone straight to a charging order, but theyve chosen this route. Ill speak to them and see if I can get to the bottom of it.

cheers

rtho782 · 12 July 2017 at 11:28AM

If they have a CCJ they have a CCJ. It might be that they didn't need to go for a CCJ to get a charging order, but that doesn't mean they can't go that way.

The judgement is valid and has been granted, so not much you can do.

CIS · 12 July 2017 at 12:16PM

rtho782 wrote: »

If they have a CCJ they have a CCJ. It might be that they didn't need to go for a CCJ to get a charging order, but that doesn't mean they can't go that way.

The judgement is valid and has been granted, so not much you can do.

Some debts can only be pursued by specific routes and that may not involve a CCJ application, in those cases the CCJ application would be an error if it occurred.

Craig

National_Debtline · 12 July 2017 at 4:18PM

Hi Randombloke

I agree with CIS on this one, the council would not apply for a CCJ to recover council tax. If it is in fact an N322 Order for Recovery of an Award this would suggest it was a benefit overpayment.

However Experian confirm that a council tax debt will not appear on your credit file because councils do not share that information with the credit reference agencies and court action is taken via the magistrates’ court http://www.experian.co.uk/consumer/questions/askjames226.html. An order for recovery is not a CCJ and therefore won’t be recorded on the Registry Trust, which is where the credit reference agencies get their information about who has a CCJ.

It’s also worth noting a liability order is sufficient for the council to obtain a charging order for council tax (they do not require a CCJ to be made first). If you are sure it is the council who obtained the order contact them for more information about the debt. You may also want to raise the issue with the credit reference agency. Good luck getting the matter resolved.

Susie
@natdebtline

Randombloke · 13 July 2017 at 12:14PM

Hi Susie

I fully understand what you and CIS are saying, but this is definitely council tax, I've never claimed any benefits whatsover so there is no possibility of overpayment.

I don't want to post the Order up here, but the gist of it is this:

The paperwork I received was an N322 Order for Recovery of Award. This came out of the blue, there had been no summons or other notification of any action or hearing.

Ill take out some details, but essentially it reads that the court considered 'the application' and 'the award made to xxx council by xxx magistrates court' (which is the liability order)
'And the court orders that
1. the applicant may enforce the award in this court
2. the respondant pays the applicants costs
3. the amount enforceable is £xxx'

In 'notes to respondent' it says the order means that goods may be removed or sold or other enforcement action may be taken against me and the applicant may be entitled to interest.(which is essentially the charging order).

At the time I received it, I rang the council and was told it was in connection with a charging order, and subsequently I received notice from HM Land Registry that the council had applied for a charging order for the amount. This HM registry notice states that 'the applicant claims to have the benefit of a charging order made by a court against your interest in this property' and further goes on to state terms of the restriction to be placed on the register, that the council have 'benefit of a final charging order made by the county court money claims centre' and then lists the reference of the N322 Order listed above!

so my thoughts are:
1. The council are proceeduraly incorrect in obtaining the charging order in this way;
2. The court and HM Registry are proceeduraly incorrect as the N322 is not a 'final charging order made by the court';
3. Registry Trust should not have record of the judgement listed, as an N322 order for recovery is not a CCJ that statute allows them to list;
4. The credit reference agencies shouldn't list it either as its not a CCJ and its a Council tax debt.

Can I make it clear again, I'm not trying to dodge this debt, and I am paying it, and will remove the charging order via means legal and moral once I've cleared the debt, but I don't see why my credit record should be affected by a CCJ that shouldn't be there.

So the help I require is in knowing how to go about removing it from my credit records. Do I contact Registry Trust, or the reference agencies, or both? Where is the legislation I can cite that says what can and should be listed (ie CCJ's, not Orders for Recovery of award's)?

thanks

Randombloke · 13 July 2017 at 12:50PM

Ive just done some more digging, and the N322 Order for recovery of award was only part of the judgement - under the same claim number, there is an interim charging award.

so my remaining questions are:
1. should Registry Trust should not have record of the judgement listed, as an interim charging order for concil tax
2. should the credit reference agencies list it as its not a CCJ as such, and its a Council tax debt.

Where is the legislation I can cite that says what can and should be listed (ie CCJ's, or charging orders)

thanks

Samsung_Note2 · 13 July 2017 at 1:04PM

I dont know what council your under but when i had several years on the sick my local council were reasonable..wouldn't say helpful but just about agreed to help.

My water company hit me with a CCJ each year for 3 Years and that was all down to a faulty meter..so not even my fault lol

Trouble is with your first post it reads as you managed to avoid the council tax and played the bailiffs.

Maybe if you posted events like a time line that might help the more knowledgeable on here to understand how you arrived at the point you find yourself now.

Just a thought and i hope you get it sorted out.

Randombloke · 13 July 2017 at 2:00PM

thanks Samsung_Note2

yes, its my first time on the forum so I guess I hadnt understood the mood and maybe my first post was a bit naively worded.

More background info for those who would like it - I'm a married bloke with 2 kids, sole earner as my wife has mental health issues, doing my best to get by and do the best for the family etc. A few years ago when the !!!! dropped out of the economy I was in a vulnerable position - Id been working as a 'consultant' (ie self employed) in architecture, my dad had been diagnosed with terminal illness and Id taken some time off to help out, and as an indirect result lost my 'job' when the architecture market dipped, and therefore lost the familys only source of income, so started to struggle. I had a 3 year period of doing whatever I could to get by - building work, wedding invitation artwork, cleaning, whatever I could - and we had a really lean period. I learned how to feed a family of 4 on £40 a week, sold everything I didnt need, just struggled through until times picked up. I built up a load of mortgage arrears and council tax debt during the period which im still resolving. I never once claimed any benefits, tax credits or anything and I always pax all my taxes due.

My council were not at all helpful with the council tax, engaged a bailiff to chase the debt and refused to deal with me directly so although I was paying them a few quid a week every week I still had bailiffs banging on the door at all hours. My problem with bailiffs is that the private companies are basically bullies who will try and collect the debt but add on a load of additional money for themselves, which I couldn't afford. They were causing massive stress to my wife and children and I had no means to meet their demands. So I learned how to deal with them, what their actual powers are, what they need to do to stay within the law etc, and because the individuals I was dealing with were essentially unprofessional bullies I built up a weight of evidence against them and then told them if they didn't stop behaving in that manner I'd ask the court that issued their licence to revoke it based on the breaches I'd evidenced. Lo and behold, they sent the debt back to the council, who then started to be reasonable and I'm now on schedule paying them what I owe, which they have secured on my house.

The CCJ listed against my credit reference causes me an issue because it will blacklist me for 6 years and I don't think that's right if legally this form of County court order should not be listed by the reference agencies. Its come to my attention recently as I'm in the process of forming a Community Benefit Society in my local area, providing services to disadvantaged locals on and entirely voluntary, non remunerated basis - and the CCJ will make it difficult to open a community bank account in connection with same, which is not great.

So all Im asking for is some technical advice to see if the CCJ should be on my credit record, and if not how I remove it.

thanks

Council tax CCJ - help required

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