Council tax CCJ - help required

CIS

Randombloke wrote: »

Ive just done some more digging, and the N322 Order for recovery of award was only part of the judgement - under the same claim number, there is an interim charging award.

so my remaining questions are:
1. should Registry Trust should not have record of the judgement listed, as an interim charging order for concil tax
2. should the credit reference agencies list it as its not a CCJ as such, and its a Council tax debt.

Where is the legislation I can cite that says what can and should be listed (ie CCJ's, or charging orders)

thanks

The interim order is part of the standard process of the charging order - it's effectively an order that freezes the property to stop it being disposed of before the full order hearing occurs. As far as I'm aware the charging orders are listed on the registry trust, only the CCJ - they only list the fact a court order has been made, not the form of recovery used. The registry trust also doesn't include why a CCJ was granted, just the details of it being granted.

The charging order is recorded with the land registry not the registry trust.

Have you spoke to the council yet, without having done so establish exactly what they've done you can't proceed with an argument against it.

Craig

Randombloke

Hi CIS

We are getting to the nub of it!

Ive just rang Registry Trust, the guy I spoke to said normally a charging order wouldn’t be listed but the info they get sent to upload from the County Court Money claim centre doesnt specify what the Judgement is - it just lists case number, amount, claimant & defendant names.

The final charging order made by the County court, the interim charging order and the N322 all have the same court reference number.
So if Registry Trust shouldn't list charging orders or N322's they are assuming (from limited info sent to them) that the case number is a CCJ, which is then shared by them with the reference agencies and shows up on my credit record.

so really what i need to find out is:
1. What and where is the legislation or rules saying what Registry Trust should list?
2. How do I go about getting them to remove the record if it shouldn’t be there?

CIS

1. What and where is the legislation or rules saying what Registry Trust should list?

"The Registry of County Court Judgments was set up by parliament in 1852 when William Gladstone was Chancellor. The original Act provided for the registration of all county court judgments in England & Wales of £10 or more, the original Registry being mainly important as a source of trade rather than consumer data. Otherwise, the value of exempt judgments would have been set far lower than £10 - in 1886 a Singer sewing machine cost four guineas, indicating that most consumer transactions in 1852 were less than £10."
https://www.registry-trust.org.uk/about-us/about-the-company

2. How do I go about getting them to remove the record if it shouldn’t be there?

"Amend details If your details on the register are wrong (e.g. the amount of the CCJ is wrong) contact us once you’ve searched the register. We will check with the court, and we’ll let you know what they say."

Craig

Randombloke

Hi CIS

I've done that today, as per my earlier post.

Registry Trust told me to contact the court; the court told me to write to them with my query.

Im now looking to find the SI that deals with what should be listed by Registry Trust, and the SI that governs what info from Registry Trust should show on my credit file, so that i can sort it out by:
a) writing an effective letter to the court / registry trust citing the correct legislation, if after reading said legislation I i still think they are wrong in sharing the info with the credit reference agencies;
b) writing to the credit reference agencies again citing the legislation so the 'CCJ' doesnt show on my files if it shouldn't be there.

As an example, I understand from their website that Registry Trust hold records of magistrates court criminal fines, but they would never show on a credit reference agency file -so there must be legislation somewhere that defines a distinction as to what shows and what doesn't.

If anyone can point me to that legislation, or has experience of a similar case, thanks in advance.

CIS

Im now looking to find the SI that deals with what should be listed by Registry Trust, and the SI that governs what info from Registry Trust should show on my credit file, so that i can sort it out by:

Have a read of this - https://www.trustonline.org.uk/about-us. I'd still go back to my original suggestion of speaking with the council for further clarification of exactly what has happened (and confirmation of the original debt etc).

Craig

Randombloke

thanks CIS

Yes, I've read that, and I'm clear as to what has happened and what the original debt is - the council sought a charging order through the County Court to secure a debt I owed. From all I've now read, I believe the route they took was viable and proceedurally correct, albeit unusual. Its no longer a council issue, they can have no influence now over what I'm trying to resolve.

So now I'm left with the question of whether this form of CCJ, being for council tax rather than commercial debt, with all of the subtleties and nuances of difference that entails, should be listed on my credit file. The credit file is thing that s causing me issues. Somewhere there must be a law, a statutory instrument or a set of rules that governs what information credit files show. Thats what I'm looking to find and access, so if it shouldn't be on my credit reference file I can get rid of it.

ta

Thrugelmir

Randombloke wrote: »

yes, its my first time on the forum so I guess I hadnt understood the mood and maybe my first post was a bit naively worded.

Many of us sit on here sit on both sides of the fence. Unfortunately many people do play games when it comes to settlement of debt. What ever form it is. Trouble is as clever as they think they are. It's actually very predictable. With experience one has a sixth sense as to those that are seriously addressing the matter and those that aren't.

Not saying this applies to you personally. As wouldn't judge you on a few posts alone. On a personal level I've always worked hard to find a solution. Once the trust is broken though I just get on with the business in hand and wouldn't waste any more time.

PixelPound

CIS wrote: »

I'm still not convinced it's council tax - in over a decade of working with recovery action it's not something I've ever come across. Council Tax recovery has a very specific recovery process in which the magistrates court deals with it and issues the liability order. The liability order in place of a CCJ but still allows applications for a charging order to be made without having to go for a CCJ. (CP Rules 73.2)

An "Order for Recovery of award" is the result of an application made using form N322 - this is usually used for housing benefit overpayments, not council tax itself. It may be possible it was used for an award of council tax benefit if the local authority in question didn't take the option of recovering via an adjusted council tax bill - it was an option for them to recover via the county court but I've never known any local authority do that as it would be a far more complicated route.

I would recommend that you speak with the council and clarify exactly what has happened with the application.

Craig

I was thinking similarly. The bailiffs for magistrates court have more powers than those of county courts. The ones on Tv program "can't pay we'll take it away" are from magistrates.
Council tax don't usually go down the CCJ route as you have outlined they go through the magistrates

If the OP has a CCJ, it will appear on the CRA's as CCJ's are "COUNTY COURT" Judgements and are reported to the Registry Trust. It's the fact its a CCJ it appears not whether it was commercial or not.

Maybe councils are using CC as a cheaper route or maybe they are working with DCA who are using CCJ's

PixelPound

OP have you thought about complaining to the local govt ombudsmen http://www.lgo.org.uk/

CIS

nic_c wrote: »

I was thinking similarly. The bailiffs for magistrates court have more powers than those of county courts. The ones on Tv program "can't pay we'll take it away" are from magistrates.
Council tax don't usually go down the CCJ route as you have outlined they go through the magistrates

If the OP has a CCJ, it will appear on the CRA's as CCJ's are "COUNTY COURT" Judgements and are reported to the Registry Trust. It's the fact its a CCJ it appears not whether it was commercial or not.

Maybe councils are using CC as a cheaper route or maybe they are working with DCA who are using CCJ's

Council Tax legislation does in theory allow for some action via a court of 'competent jurisdiction' but I've never known it be used as it's for a specific purpose only. Regulation 55 of the admin & enforcement regs states that such a court can be used, for one specific purpose, but I've never explored that route further.

A liability order application costs the council £3 (plus any other admin costs etc) whereas a CCJ application, if using the small claims, would cost £25+ each time (not that it's an option in the legislation for the council to use). With a CCJ a claimant needs to re-apply to the court for permission to use enforcement agents or attachment of earnings etc- under a liability order there is no need of to apply to the court again in most cases, the powers of recovery are primarily delegated to the claimant (i.e the council).

If Council Tax uses a DCA then it would be in rare cases, usually only where they employ them to chase balances that have no liability order. For a liability order they use an enforcement agent.

Craig