SIPP without SIPP provider?

Barney683 · 6 January 2020 at 5:45PM

Hi.

I want to consolidate all previous employer pensions into a SIPP. I thought that meant I could truly manage my own pension - but it seems not. It seems I have to go through a "SIPP provider" who will skim hundreds of pounds a year off the top for doing exactly nothing.

I already know which funds/OEICs I wish to invest in. I don't want to be restricted to a list of funds available through a certain SIPP provider, I don't need any advice, and I don't wish to chop and change at all going forward (and if I did, I'm quite capable of buying and selling the funds without any help).

Is it at all possible to truly manage ones own pension fund? If not, does anything come close to this?

Thanks
Barney

Albermarle · 6 January 2020 at 6:02PM

I think the main issue is that a pension provider has to be registered with HMRC, due I suppose to all the special tax rules about pensions . Legally you are and your pension are two separate entities as well.

I don't want to be restricted to a list of funds available through a certain SIPP provider, I don't need any advice,

Most SIPP providers offer thousands of funds and do not offer advice .

MallyGirl · 6 January 2020 at 6:07PM

Barney683 wrote: »

Hi.

I want to consolidate all previous employer pensions into a SIPP. I thought that meant I could truly manage my own pension - but it seems not. It seems I have to go through a "SIPP provider" who will skim hundreds of pounds a year off the top for doing exactly nothing.

They provide you the infrastructure to buy and sell (website, phone support), they do the HMRC reporting etc. It needn't be hundreds of pounds - it depends on the value of your SIPP and the sort of instruments you want to hold (funds/ITs/ETFs whatever)

Thrugelmir · 6 January 2020 at 6:29PM

SIPP providers come in many forms. You'll need to operate your SIPP (pension) through an approved provider. Though this shouldn't stop you investing the funds where ever you wish in terms of listed investments and mainstream funds.

Linton · 6 January 2020 at 6:29PM

Barney683 wrote: »

Hi.

I want to consolidate all previous employer pensions into a SIPP. I thought that meant I could truly manage my own pension - but it seems not. It seems I have to go through a "SIPP provider" who will skim hundreds of pounds a year off the top for doing exactly nothing.

A pension is a legal entity separate from you which needs to be registered with HMRC in order to own funds and receive tax protection. Funds are stored in a pension. A SIPP is one of several types of pension. Others include employers schemes and Personal Pensions. In whatever way you hold a pension it must be with someone with the appropriate legal authority.

I already know which funds/OEICs I wish to invest in. I don't want to be restricted to a list of funds available through a certain SIPP provider, I don't need any advice, and I don't wish to chop and change at all going forward (and if I did, I'm quite capable of buying and selling the funds without any help).

All the major SIPP providers will give access to thousands of funds. WHat funds do you want that arent available from them? The SIPP provider acts as a retailer for the fund managers. Fund managers in general dont want to talk to small investors - they dont have the support infrastructure.

A fund is not like a share where you can hold a physical certificate, a holding needs to exist in an environment as a record on a database. The environment must be able to accept money from you and pay you when you want paying. How would you buy and sell funds without it? Someone has to provide that environment and they wont do it for free.

Is it at all possible to truly manage ones own pension fund? If not, does anything come close to this?

Yes - with a platform you can do almost anything with a pension fund that is permitted by the law. What cant you "truly" do that you want and are legally allowed to do?

Linton · 6 January 2020 at 6:49PM

Thinking further. You do have the option of personal pensions......

These are run by the main pension companies and can be cheaper than SIPPs, but there will always be some costs to be paid for. The downside is that the choice of pension fund available will be restricted to those offered by the fund manager, though in some cases the list could include some re-badged funds from other providers. So depending on what funds you want you may need to take out a number of separate Personal Pensions

And then you would have the problem of how would you sell one fund and buy another held with a different provider.

So in general a Personal Pension would be far more restrictive than a SIPP.

Brynsam · 6 January 2020 at 7:14PM

Barney683 wrote: »

Hi.

I want to consolidate all previous employer pensions into a SIPP. I thought that meant I could truly manage my own pension - but it seems not. It seems I have to go through a "SIPP provider" who will skim hundreds of pounds a year off the top for doing exactly nothing.

I already know which funds/OEICs I wish to invest in. I don't want to be restricted to a list of funds available through a certain SIPP provider, I don't need any advice, and I don't wish to chop and change at all going forward (and if I did, I'm quite capable of buying and selling the funds without any help).

Is it at all possible to truly manage ones own pension fund? If not, does anything come close to this?

Thanks
Barney

Lovely that you know everything already, but where you seem to be a bit lacking in knowledge is what SIPP providers actually do for the 'skimmed off hundreds of pounds'. It is far from exactly nothing. Do a bit of research and you'll see why your grievance is misplaced.

xylophone · 6 January 2020 at 7:37PM

https://moneytothemasses.com/saving-for-your-future/pensions/the-best-cheapest-sipps-low-cost-diy-pensions may be worth a read.

SonOf · 6 January 2020 at 8:05PM

I want to consolidate all previous employer pensions into a SIPP. I thought that meant I could truly manage my own pension - but it seems not. It seems I have to go through a "SIPP provider" who will skim hundreds of pounds a year off the top for doing exactly nothing.

Absolutely nothing?
Who will be handling the tax relief, reporting requirements, regulatory requirements as well as the nominee, trustee and adminstration requirements?

I already know which funds/OEICs I wish to invest in. I don't want to be restricted to a list of funds available through a certain SIPP provider,

Why do you think a SIPP provider would restrict choice?

Is it at all possible to truly manage ones own pension fund?

Yes. via a SIPP.

Or is anything quoted on the LSE and virtually the whole UT/OEIC universe not enough for you?

DairyQueen · 6 January 2020 at 8:19PM

OP isn't pulling our plonkers then? Certainly made me chuckle.:D

[Deleted User] · 6 January 2020 at 9:11PM

Barney683 wrote: »

Hi.

I already know which funds/OEICs I wish to invest in.

Is it at all possible to truly manage ones own pension fund? If not, does anything come close to this?

You would not be truly managing your pension if you were to invest in funds/OEICs; you would be paying fund managers to manage it for you and their fees would far exceed those of your SIPP provider.,

SIPP without SIPP provider?

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