SIPP without SIPP provider?

Prism

Barney683 wrote: »

What are you in about, SonOf? What knowledge?


It is abundantly clear that asking a question about how SIPPs work on a pensions forum is research.

When doing research about something it works best if you start with an open mind, but it does seem that you have several strong existing opinions about what a SIPP is or isn't or should be. Should a SIPP be able to invest in anything in the world or is many thousands of choices enough? Is a SIPP platform expensive? You seem to have already decided on these questions.

So no you can't invest in any fund on any stock exchange mainly because funds aren't on stock exchanges. I fund exists where the fund manager wants it to exist, I imagine mainly based upon where there is a target market for it. If using your example the manager of a German EUR based fund felt there was a market audience for such things in the UK then they would probably look to find a UK platform to offer it. However there probably isn't. You also for example won't find many (any?) UK platforms that allow you to invest directly in shares on the Japanese stock exchange but you will find a selection of UK hosted funds that do so in Yen as there does seem to be an audience for that.

You are off the mark on costs. I certainly do not pay at least £500 per year in platform charges. Have a look into some of the cheaper platforms

BLB53

I think you may be conflating two issues. If your pensions you wish to consolidate are valued at more than £30,000 then the rules require you to obtain advice from a professional adviser.

The choice of SIPP provider is up to you and most are relatively cheap to operate depending on the choice of funds etc usually under 0.5% of the sums invested.

Suggest get hold of Edwards book 'DIY Pensions' for more info on managing a DIY sipp.

Aegis

BLB53 wrote: »

I think you may be conflating two issues. If your pensions you wish to consolidate are valued at more than £30,000 then the rules require you to obtain advice from a professional adviser.

Just for clarity, only if there are safeguarded benefits involved. If there aren't, anyone can transfer their pensions without involving an adviser.

Linton

You can buy Euro denominated German tracker ETFs, as suggested by the OP, from both HL and III. An III SIPP would cost about £250/year fixed rate which is comparable with how much the value of a fairly large portfolio could typically change over 1 hour.

bowlhead99

Barney683 wrote: »

SonOf wrote: »

Barney683 wrote:

And as to your suggestion that paying at least £500 pounds is warranted for the legal duties performed by the SIPP provider - I don't believe you. I'm quite sure this is all done electronically, without being seen by human eyes, with negligible cost

And the knowledge just magics itself into existence along with the systems etc.

What are you in about, SonOf? What knowledge?

In order to for a company to be able to do things electronically with negligible cost, they first need to obtain knowledge about what it is they would like to do and how they could accomplish it.

Understanding legal and regulatory compliance rules and how to make sure a customer or employee doesn't break them requires systems and controls and processes etc, beyond the ability to simply buy and sell assets and handle corporate actions. The knowledge about how to operate a business (and more specifically, the business of a pensions administrator), and how to build relationships with brokers and custodians and banks and other service providers (or build those functions yourself) and get hardware and software to talk to each other and to other systems etc etc, generally involves recruiting a bunch of people with different skill sets to be able to work all that out and implement it.

So building a pensions provider that can offer the services needed around a self invested personal pension wrapper is not going to be free. The business has all the costs of any business (finance, strategic leadership, corporate governance, HR, sales and marketing and all the related people, premises, systems, etc) before you get into the specifics of what a pensions firm actually needs - what specific knowledge and operations must it have to be able to offer the product...

The 'self invested' part of SI PP means they do not need to advise or choose investments for the customers and can simply create access to a wide variety of them (subject to various compliance rules around what can be offered within regulations) and let the customers get on with it. So investment recommendations or portfolio management is one department they don't need to offer. But clearly the service won't be free, because it costs money to provide all the other aspects, and there needs to be a profit motive on top.

What you find is that the cheapest services may offer a limited range of products while more expensive ones can afford to offer more services (buy and sell on overseas markets, hold commercial property or unlisted shares/ structured products, pre-fund tax relief etc etc.) Not all customers want those services and the providers are reluctant to price themselves out of the market by offering them all just in case a customer wants it, because they hear that customers want low fixed fees or low percentage-based fees

So while a SIPP product might be available for £100-£200 for large investments or elsewhere at under half a percent for small Investments (my mum pays under £10 a year for a £2k SIPP wrapper with her provider), you might find that your particular needs are catered for only by the more expensive providers, which is maybe why you are seeing £500 fees.

If you were a pensions provider and a hundred thousand customers wanted to trade UK-marketed funds and London and New York listed stocks, and then one customer comes along saying he's based in the UK but needs to trade shares listed in Hong Kong, Israel and Germany, for which you don't currently offer a solution... ...would you just quickly and easily build a solution that somehow has 'negligible' cost in the context of the extra revenue that the one customer would be willing to pay you for the additional options? What if he decides to leave in a few months and nobody else really takes up those services you implementated? The FCA recently consulted about banning 'exit fees'. So best for providers not to implement costly services that people might not use. 'Costly' here can mean implementation cost as well as ongoing operating costs.

midlandsimon

You can get low cost SIPPs that offer open market and full access to all FCA approved 'sippable' assets including stocks/funds/bonds/options etc.


Try 'lite' products from people like: InvestAcc/ A J Bell etc


They run SIPPs for around £150-£190 a year. Hardly breaking the bank on a decent sized fund.

midlandsimon

People recommending him down the SSAS route are clearly clueless.

Linton

midlandsimon wrote: »

People recommending him down the SSAS route are clearly clueless.

No-one is recommending the OP down the SSAS route. I only mentioned it because as far as I could see it was the only way of getting close to the OPs requirements. It is clearly the wrong answer except perhaps in very particular circumstances. Rather than being purely negative towards what he is asking for perhaps it may be more useful in providing a better understanding of the practicalities of what is involved.

Aegis

midlandsimon wrote: »

People recommending him down the SSAS route are clearly clueless.

It's the only type of pension that allows someone to operate their pension without a professional trustee. It meets the requirements as a result.


It would be a bloody stupid idea, and it would probably cost far more in time and effort than would be saved, but the OP seemed utterly adamant that they wanted to avoid paying a few hundred pounds a year to a SIPP trustee.

SonOf

midlandsimon wrote: »

People recommending him down the SSAS route are clearly clueless.

Its not being recommended. However, it is the closest to what he wants.

It wouldn't be suitable and would cost a heck of a lot more than a SIPP and take a lot more work but as the OP doesn't think there is any work or costs, that would be an education for them.