House value for probate with Deed of Trust

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  • xylophone
    xylophone Posts: 44,425 Forumite
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    I am no expert but it seems to me that the 1989 restriction could have been a Form N restriction.

    I assume that there was no mortgage - your mother had cash and your brother had cash and they each put up half the purchase price of a property.

    There was no formal documentation of any form of loan nor was your brother registered as a proprietor of the property.

    His protection was that your mother could not sell without his consent - if he had given such consent and the property had been sold, it is unclear to what proportion of the sale proceeds he would actually have been entitled.

    Just the repayment of the money he had put down? Fine, the repayment of a loan. Half the proceeds of sale? On what basis - a form of rolled up interest? Income tax may have been due. Otherwise, there was a capital gain and CGT may have been due. Or perhaps, with no form (apparently) of written agreement, nothing at all?

    It is possible that the above may also have been relevant at the time that the DoT was drawn up.

    With regard to the DoT,

    https://www.rocketlawyer.com/gb/en/quick-guides/declaration-of-trust

    may be relevant.

    It would seem likely that your brother will need to consider his CGT position.

    It could be a good idea to obtain professional advice - it may be that HMRC would give some guidance as to what to put on the form

    https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/probate-and-inheritance-tax-enquiries but equally you might be told to obtain professional advice.
  • Tom99
    Tom99 Posts: 5,371 Forumite
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    edited 13 October 2019 at 3:43PM
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    crabbit65 wrote: »
    Hi
    In the 1989 Land Registry Plan Under B.Proprietorship Register there is a restriction by which no dispostion by the proprietor of the land is to be registered without the consent of my brother.
    The 21-3-1995 Deed of Trust states that the registered proprietor and my brother have agreed that the Property shall as from today be held by them in equal shares. Which I think means that my mother is the 'Registered Proprietor', ie 'Sole Proprietor' my brother has an equitable interest.

    I am assuming, which may be a mistake, that 'Registered Proprietor' and 'Sole Proprietor' mean the same thing.

    So, at the moment I am leaning towards putting down £200,000 as the 'Registered Proprietor' and then allocate accordingly, with my brother getting his equitable share before anything else is done.
    Does that make sense?
    Cheers for the help
    You can have up to 4 registered proprietors (ie legal owners), a sole proprietor means there is only one registered proprietor/legal owner.
    The deed of trust sets out the beneficial ownership.
    You put the beneficial ownership on the IHT forms not legal ownership so 50%/£100,000.
  • crabbit65
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    I think that this is the course of action I will take - call gov.uk in the morning and then get professional advice if so directed.
    Thank you for all your suggestions and advice.
    Cheers
  • xylophone
    xylophone Posts: 44,425 Forumite
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    Let us know how you get on.
  • pip895
    pip895 Posts: 1,178 Forumite
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    This may be a really stupid question, and reveal my total lack of understanding of trusts:o.

    Something I have often puzzled about, is can you, by mutual consent, tear up a trust and ignore it?

    Presuming that you and your brother "trust" one another - could you both chose to ignore the trust - distribute in accordance with the will - assuming say it said everything is split 50:50 between yourself and your brother, then you simply sign a dead of variation to "correct the allocation" giving him 75% of the value of the property. As the estate seems to be well below the IHT threshold there would then be no tax to pay...

    I have seen several cases on here when a trust has been set up with good intention but they have, because of changes in taxation/legislation, ended up penalising those they were intended to help - I know this is not entirely the case here...

    What I am trying to get at is, are trusts registered somewhere - would the Government be able to use a trust that wasn't bought to its attention to claim additional taxation?
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