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Regarding PCN Admin Centre Parking Fine

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rachyface
rachyface Posts: 9 Forumite
edited 22 January 2019 at 12:27AM in Parking tickets, fines & parking
*Please be prepared for a long post which I will be so gracious for anyone to assist me with.*

I'm writing on behalf of my father.

He parked in the retail park Broad Centre, Sutton-In-Ashfield, which was near to a church event he and a friend was attending on the 24th November 2018. My father suffers from spinal damage as a result of severe nerve root damage so is a disabled car park user and has trouble getting places quickly so this car park was essential to get to his event on time. He parked in the retail park on the 24th November from 09:59 to 13:44 ( Approximately 3 hours and 44 minutes).

This is a park that previously owned ticket machines in order to extend hours cost effectively - Recently this has changed and now there is a 2-hour parking limit across the park. However, the signage is unclear (As you can see below) in terms of the restrictions for disabled users (As normally there are additional exceptions and hours allowed for these causes).

When I explained his situation I was asked whether had shopped in any of the nearby stores and if he had proof of receipt - However, I wasn't sure how this would assist with the case?

It has now been passed onto another company and the fine has risen from £60 to £170. As you can imagine we are now starting to get worried but have read many stories where people say this is the normal procedure and not to worry. But we're just wondering if we have followed the correct process to appeal and whether or not we had enough evidence to reject this fine?


Also as a side note, his friend who attended the same event with him on the day came in an additional vehicle and parked next/near to my dad (Approx 4 spaces up - still in view of the camera) and did NOT receive one of these letters or a fine. - Selective?


I will attach all correspondence to help anyone who could help with this.

Email correspondence;

On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 16:59, I wrote:

To whom it may concern, I am writing to PCN Admin Centre without prejudice regarding a notice I have received.

While shopping in Broad Centre, Sutton-In-Ashfield on the 24th November 2018 with my wife I received a Parking Charge Notice, Number: for ‘PARKING ON PRIVATE PROPERTY IN BREACH OF THE PROMINENTLY DISPLAYED TERMS AND CONDITIONS’

I walk hindered by Spinal Damage as a result of Severe Nerve Root Damage and as such rely on a disabled bay in order to get to where I need to go.

I received this worrying note in the post on the 6th December 2018, stating that I had breached the terms and conditions of parking at the Broad Centre, Station Road, Sutton In Ashfield, Nottingham, NG17 5FH.

As a known disabled driver I was very unsure as to what these restrictions in the car park may be for disability allowances as the signpost (as you can see below) is very unclear when it comes to Disabled bays. So I assumed that the protocol would remain the same, whereas the disabled driver displays a badge and is exempt from any parking restrictions.

As you can see ‘Drivers using disabled bays must display a valid disabled parking badge at all times’ is not clear.

Please note that on this day I was particularly encumbered which resulted in me returning to the car far later than I would have liked. Therefore, I find this parking charge extremely prejudice against anyone with a disability.

Also, could we please note that there is no longer ticket machines in the car park to extend your parking times. However, I am aware that for a lengthy time they were present but covered up and not in-use.

This is one of the spots where the original ticket machine was located.

I therefore am refusing to pay this charge and request that this Parking Charge Notice to be cancelled and have attached a photo of both sides of my Blue Badge which was present at the time I was parked in this car park.

I would appreciate your immediate attention regarding this matter,
Yours Sincerely,






From: Customer Services

Good morning

Thank you for your email your comments have been noted.

The reason that you have been issued the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) is as you can see from your photographic evidence there is a maximum stay of 2 hours when parking on this site. It is the driver's responsibility to understand and adhere to the terms and conditions when parking on private land, and as stated in your blue badge pack when received that this also applies to blue badge holders.

Please, can you provide evidence of your purchases o the date in question so we can look into this matter appropriately?

This matter is on hold for 7 days pending this information, without this after 1 week the collection procedure will continue.

Kind regards
Jimmy



On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 at 10:41, I wrote:


Good morning,

Thank you for your prompt response to the issue at hand.

Unfortunately, there were no purchases made on this date. However, it was a boost of moral to get around the shops; We went in to Matalan to look for some winter woollies and then onto Pets at home for the possibility to book my Sproodle (Dog) in for his winter groom - Also seeing the small animals was very therapeutic for me.

However, I do find this unfair as to warrant a stay in your car park a purchase must be made, which is a little discriminate to say the least.

For example if I would like to shop in ASDA I would park in their car park, not yours to struggle the length it takes to get there. As I have to rely on close proximity and the convenience at hand to get around the shops as you can imagine.

As I have very limited mobility please bare in mind the broad centre would offer me no access to any other shops or facilities in Sutton outside the Broad Centre Retail Park.

I also understand what the blue badge policies are, however it clearly states;

‘You might have to pay for parking if you’re parking in a private car park, for example at a supermarket or hospital. You’ll need to check the signs in the car park.’

Unfortunately, it doesn’t clearly state on your car park signs that the time limit also applies to disabled users.

I hope we can come to an amicable decision and I look forward to hearing from you,

Regards,




From: Customer Services

Good afternoon

Thank you for your appeal your comments have been noted.

Please see attached as the outcome of your appeal

Kind regards
Jimmy


Unfortunately I cannot post links or even photos (Or if i can then I'm unsure how to).

Thank you in advance for any help!
«13

Comments

  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 132,172 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
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    PCN Admin Centre are not the parking firm, so who are the PPC as noted on the first letter or notice? You will need to look, it is there.

    Is the appeal outcome offering POPLA?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • rachyface
    rachyface Posts: 9 Forumite
    edited 21 January 2019 at 3:29PM
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    Thank you,

    It says on the front of the first letter;

    Our Client: HIGHVIEW PARKING LIMITED - Would this be the PPC?

    And yes it does state on the last letter;

    Our Client:
    Highview Parking Limited
    Parking Charge Notice Number:

    Vehicle Registration Mark:
    E*****
    Location:
    The Broad Centre, Station Road Sutton in Ashfield Nottingham NG17 5FH
    Contravention Date/Time:
    24/11/2018
    Total Amount Due:
    £100.00 (discounted to £60.00 if paid within 14 days)
    POPLA CODE:
  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 58,292 Forumite
    Name Dropper Photogenic First Anniversary First Post
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    Redact the PCN and PoPLA numbers. Somebody could do a lot of damage with malice aforethought using that information!

    There is also far too much personal information in your initial post.

    If the scammers now know the identity of the driver, you have made an easy job very much more difficult. You are not dealing with nice, reasonable people, you are dealing with scammers, bullies and lairs.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • rachyface
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    Sorry! I didn't think..

    Is there anything that you can suggest? I'm currently writing up a letter of appeal but now I'm unsure..
  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 58,292 Forumite
    Name Dropper Photogenic First Anniversary First Post
    edited 21 January 2019 at 4:39PM
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    There is still far too much personal information in your initial post.

    Use all the PoPLA template appeal points that are relevant from post 3 of the NEWBIES.

    These will normally include at least,
    Not the landowner
    No standing to issue charges
    Inadequate signage
    Any BPA CoP failure
    Any PoFA failures (not applicable if the scammers know the identity of the driver.)

    Get your own pics of the site and signage.

    Oh, never put "without prejudice" in any document unless you really, really, know what it means and understand the possible consequences.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,743 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
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    rachyface wrote: »
    Is there anything that you can suggest?
    Yes, here's a suggestion... remove the driver's name from the opening post.
  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 58,292 Forumite
    Name Dropper Photogenic First Anniversary First Post
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    KeithP wrote: »
    Yes, here's a suggestion... remove the driver's name from the opening post.

    … and PCN number.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • rachyface
    rachyface Posts: 9 Forumite
    edited 22 January 2019 at 12:21AM
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    Thank you guys. I’ve removed al sensitive information. Do you think we have enough evidence to contess this?
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
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    dont CONFESS anything

    the person that received the popla code should prepare a popla appeal based on the usual technicalities like poor signage etc

    because it is private land with restrictions the BB issue wont help, and the EA2010 may not either, but is likely to be a separate issue because POPLA wont consider it

    to win at popla he needs to win on a technicality, like no contract, poor signage etc , especially if the driver has been admitted (making it much harder to win)

    the popla code will last for up to 33 days from its issue date, so I dont think there is much time left for you or him to produce a popla appeal, so get it done asap
  • Guys_Dad
    Guys_Dad Posts: 11,025 Forumite
    First Post Combo Breaker
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    Your father has thrown away much of the posible appeal points with the very naive appeal.

    Looking at things coldly, the car park is not a social amenity. It was bought by some private company to provide parking, presumably, for the businesses that are on site. It is NOT there for the therapeutic benefit of people like your father.

    He has admitted to not spending any money at the shops, yet remained parked for 3 hours 44 minutes. What was he doing?

    So, with that in mind, how do you overturn this? Well you need to read the Newbies thread. You can forget any defences relying on Keeper liability, unless you decide to say your wife was driving.

    You need to look at the signs and pick them apart. In particular, what precisely do they say about use of ANPR. (I beat Highview on deficient ANPR sign wording). You can also challenge their authority to issue charges as well.

    But, along with many Blue Badge holders, you need to remember that parking concessions in line with Blue Badge scheme only apply to public roads and any private car parks that specifically state concessions, other than BB bays, for disabled drivers.
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