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I have no issue with good landlords that are buying properties that FTB can't otherwise afford or doing up dilapidated properties.
My issue comes with cash buyers competing against FTB's on houses that are well within their budget. An FTB only has a finite budget compared to many cash buyers and so in my and many people I knows experience, they lose out all the time to investors who can top even a very high offer from FTB. This means they then rent them out at a higher cost to people like FTB and it inflates the bottom of the property ladder and you can never get on it.
You only have to go on Rightmove to see even a 1 bed property is very expensive, but a 2 or 3 bed isn't really that much more than a 1 bed.
Personally, I'd like to see a law change that prohibits BTL from buying starter homes.
Why are you conflating cash buyers with landlords?
What is a "starter home"
Why would cash buyers needlessly pay over the odds for a property (your implication) - if they are investors its important they keep within their budget to make the BTL work.0 -
“OP hasn't come back to add anything further to the discussion so I suspect his intention was to try and stir up an argument.
Originally posted by fairy lights ”
@rentmekid "sorry for not being glued to this thread you muppet "
Point proven
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credibility?Crashy_Time wrote: »Sorry, but a link would give you much more credibility
Crashy Time?
here is a link: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/oxymoron0 -
Not fabricated. Cherry-picked, extrapolated and spun, perhaps.
Well, I don't think cherry picked is fair - extrapolated yes. I think it's fair to discount social sector units as they're not available to either owner occupiers or landlords, and look at how ownership is distributed for housing types within the private sector alone.
Going off table AT2.2 of the second annex of the English Housing Survey the ownership distributions for private sector properties are as follows:
1 Bed 1 Person Studio/Flat: 22% Owner Occupier / 78% Landlord
1 Bed 2 Person Studio/Flat: 39% Owner Occupier / 61% Landlord
2 Bed 3 Person Flat/House: 60% Owner Occupier / 40% Landlord
2 bed 4 Person Flat/House: 63% Owner Occupier / 37% Landlord
3 Bed 4 Person Flat/House: 76% Owner Occupier / 24% Landlord
3 Bed 5 Person Flat/House: 82% Owner Occupier / 18% Landlord
....and so on in increasing proportions for owner occupiers.
I apologise for remembering the wrong figures (and and derailing the conversation in that regard) . However I do think that the distribution does demonstrate that landlords own a) the majority of private sector 1 bed units and b) over a third of private sector 2 bed units.
These are the types of properties which my rightmove continually tells me are 'ideal for first time buyers' and then also adds in 'or investors'. in my mind this quite clearly demonstrates that FtB's and landlords are in competition for the same housing stock.0 -
Well, I don't think cherry picked is fair - extrapolated yes. I think it's fair to discount social sector units as they're not available to either owner occupiers or landlords - Except for the right to buy scheme?..., and look at how ownership is distributed for housing types within the private sector alone. - With no data to suggest which are purpose built and which are converted properties?
Going off table AT2.2 of the second annex of the English Housing Survey the ownership distributions for private sector properties are as follows:
1: Of the estimated 22.8 million households in England, 14.3 million or 63% were owner occupiers.
2: the private rented sector accounted for 4.5 million or 20% of households.
Those are your 2 headline figures.
1 Bed 1 Person Studio/Flat: 22% Owner Occupier / 78% Landlord
1 Bed 2 Person Studio/Flat: 39% Owner Occupier / 61% Landlord
2 Bed 3 Person Flat/House: 60% Owner Occupier / 40% Landlord
2 bed 4 Person Flat/House: 63% Owner Occupier / 37% Landlord
3 Bed 4 Person Flat/House: 76% Owner Occupier / 24% Landlord
3 Bed 5 Person Flat/House: 82% Owner Occupier / 18% Landlord
....and so on in increasing proportions for owner occupiers. - Indeed, because people are choosing not to buy studios and one bedroom properties? Typically people buy once they are more financially stable, usually with a partner, possibly looking to start a family. That's just what the market dictates ( I still don't agree with excluding social housing, but that's up to you)
I apologise for remembering the wrong figures (and and derailing the conversation in that regard) . However I do think that the distribution does demonstrate that landlords own a) the majority of private sector 1 bed units - Yes that's true. and b) over a third of private sector 2 bed units. - Indeed
These are the types of properties which my rightmove continually tells me are 'ideal for first time buyers' and then also adds in 'or investors'. in my mind this quite clearly demonstrates that FtB's and landlords are in competition for the same housing stock.
Oh I see, so this is a problem with what a company is telling you in it's marketing material. Now I understand.
FTBs aren't usually buying the studio or one bed options by choice.0 -
I think it's fair to discount social sector units
Can you see the difference...?Suffice to say that 80% of 1 bed flats and 50% of 2 bed flats are owned by landlords
You're instantly discarding up to 40-odd% of the total housing stock in each category... Yet we're constantly told that "Social housing is rocking horse"... No, it isn't. It's just that security of tenure makes it available rarely, and demand outstrips supply. Where is that demand coming from, if not from people who are currently in the private rental market, and not able or willing to look at ownership?Going off table AT2.2 of the second annex of the English Housing Survey the ownership distributions for private sector properties are as follows:
1 Bed 1 Person Studio/Flat: 22% Owner Occupier / 78% Landlord
1 Bed 2 Person Studio/Flat: 39% Owner Occupier / 61% Landlord
1x single is only 6% of all 1x bed properties.
Private rental is 31% of all 1x bed, and 62% of all private sector 1x bed.
That's a BIG difference from "80% of all"...
Again, they're not two equal-size categories, although they're less uneven than 1x bed.2 Bed 3 Person Flat/House: 60% Owner Occupier / 40% Landlord
2 bed 4 Person Flat/House: 63% Owner Occupier / 37% Landlord
About 42% of all private-sector 2x bed are private rental. Some way short of the 50% figure...However I do think that the distribution does demonstrate that landlords own a) the majority of private sector 1 bed units and b) over a third of private sector 2 bed units.
Agreed with that - but that's not the same thing as the original claim of "80%/50% of all", is it?These are the types of properties which my rightmove continually tells me are 'ideal for first time buyers' and then also adds in 'or investors'. in my mind this quite clearly demonstrates that FtB's and landlords are in competition for the same housing stock.
Bear in mind many of the "or investors" properties will just not be suitable for any mortgage buyers - there's a variety of reasons for that, but they are often simply unmortgageable for some reason, usually relating to leases or commercial property restrictions. It doesn't matter whether that's a BtL buyer or a potential owner-occupier.
Equally, many properties are unavailable to potential landlords, because of lease restrictions on lettings - which can also dissuade potential owner-occupiers, because they think they may wish to let out as and when they move on in the future.0 -
http://news.sky.com/story/applications-from-eu-nurses-to-work-in-uk-down-96-since-brexit-vote-10913295
The supply of people up for paying 750 p.m for a dodgy flat is dwindling, just wait til they cut benefits for EU nationals......0 -
Agreed with that - but that's not the same thing as the original claim of "80%/50% of all", is it?
No it's not and I apologise for getting the data wrong. If I rephrased to say that ~60% of private sector 1 bed units and ~ 30% of private sector 2 bed units are owned by landlords could we agree on those figures?Oh I see, so this is a problem with what a company is telling you in it's marketing material. Now I understand. FTBs aren't usually buying the studio or one bed options by choice.
It's an illustration that it's understood by the very people who are commissioned to sell these properties that FtB's and landlords are in competition for the same stock.
As to your question of choice, all of my FtB friends, colleagues and relatives have started off in 1 bed flats.0
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