Deception by "The Drops of Help"

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  • antrobus
    antrobus Posts: 17,386 Forumite
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    Meepster wrote: »
    Where is it implied though? I mean really?

    Simple answer is they don't.

    The even go as far as putting LTD after their company name, which IMPLIES they are a business.

    If people can't tell the difference between this company and a charity, that's down to them inferring incorrectly...

    No, "putting LTD after their company name" means that they are a limited company, whether or not the limited company in question is a charity or a business is a different question altogether. In fact it's quite common for a charity to be a limited company, since otherwise the people who run the charity would be personally liable for any debts incurred. Such as 'Oxfam' for example, where Oxfam is in fact a registered trademark of Oxfam GB Ltd, registered charity no 202918.
  • martinthebandit
    martinthebandit Posts: 4,422 Forumite
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    which is the reason why all collection bags that come here go straight from the letter box to the recycle bin.

    Job done
  • real1314
    real1314 Posts: 4,432 Forumite
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    They claim to help those in need - orphans, poor families, asylums - yet from what has been posted, they provide no details of eactly how they do this.

    They may not directly claim to be a charity, but they do claim to perform what is generally seen as a charity function.

    I suspect they may be breaking/sailing very close to some illegality with their claims.
  • antrobus
    antrobus Posts: 17,386 Forumite
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    Reaper wrote: »
    I think this an outrageous attempt at deception. I feel somebody ought to be regulating this but I'm not sure if anyone is. The Charity Commission would probably not get involved as it is not a charity. Any ideas?

    An outrageous attempt at deception? Well yes and no. This is actually a well known 'scam'. See this article from The Guardian of 2007 - The great charity collection scam - http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2007/aug/18/moneysupplement.voluntarysector - and note how the "dodgy garment gatherers will use names such as Angel of Goodness, Angel of Help, or Island of Hope" ... that should ring a bell ..."And many will use pictures of "orphans" or "street children" on the leaflets", which should ring another.

    But everything is implied you see. As long as they don't actually use the word 'charity' such people can keep on the right side of the law.
  • antrobus
    antrobus Posts: 17,386 Forumite
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    Meepster wrote: »
    ... They clearly state they are a limited company and from their webpage you can also see they are VAT registered...

    See above. And Oxfam's VAT registration number is GB348454238. Being a charity does not exempt you from having to comply with the requirements of HMRC.
  • Meepster
    Meepster Posts: 5,955 Forumite
    edited 25 June 2011 at 5:04PM
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    antrobus wrote: »
    See above. And Oxfam's VAT registration number is GB348454238. Being a charity does not exempt you from having to comply with the requirements of HMRC.

    What I was saying was: They are giving you all the information you need to know to find out they are not a charity.

    Just because people PRESUME they are a charity doesn't mean they are decieving anyone...

    Definition of decieve: to mislead by a false appearance or statement;

    So to be trying to decieve, they would have to mention charity in their speel. Which they clearly don't...
    If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands

  • antrobus
    antrobus Posts: 17,386 Forumite
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    Meepster wrote: »
    What I was saying was: They are giving you all the information you need to know to find out they are not a charity.

    Just because people PRESUME they are a charity doesn't mean they are decieving anyone...

    Yes and as I was saying;
    antrobus wrote: »
    ... But everything is implied you see. As long as they don't actually use the word 'charity' such people can keep on the right side of the law.

    Any one who thinks that such "dodgy garment gatherers" who "use names such as Angel of Goodness, Angel of Help, or Island of Hope" don't deliberately and conciously seek to encourage such a presumption is being seriously naive.

    It is however not illegal, and there's nothing you can do about it. Except that is making as many people as possible aware of what's going on.
  • antrobus
    antrobus Posts: 17,386 Forumite
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    And in response to your edited comment,I would refer you to the answer given above.
    Meepster wrote: »
    Definition of decieve: to mislead by a false appearance or statement;

    So to be trying to decieve, they would have to mention charity in their speel. Which they clearly don't...
  • motorguy
    motorguy Posts: 22,479 Forumite
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    antrobus wrote: »
    And in response to your edited comment,I would refer you to the answer given above.

    Definition of decieve: to mislead by a false appearance or statement;

    Mislead and false appearance is all over the site.

    'non profit making', 'volunteers' Implies a charity.

    'We also create employment within the UK and other countries for clothing collection staff, distribution staff and many others that may not normally be in employment.' So do many businesses, but they dont feel a need to put it on their website.

    Every member of our team carry company indentification cards. This makes them sound like a charity.

    All we request is that you supply all items in a clean, good condition as they will be re-used by other people in future. No, they will be SOLD to other people in the future.

    Registered in England and Wales No 07121674. Missing the words 'as a limited company' - makes them sound like a charity.

    A small drop of help from yourself can help to support poor families, orphans and asylums around the world. By selling them your clothes, not giving them to them.

    Also, we're not the only ones debating whether or not its deception...

    http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,558097,558124

    http://www.westdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?4,5704

    Also, i think their category definition is interesting from companies house...

    http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/93ae2632e9c6756ab06f05457823dc13/compdetails

    'Retail second-hand goods in stores'
  • Premier_2
    Premier_2 Posts: 15,141 Forumite
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    edited 26 June 2011 at 6:14PM
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    pgilc1 wrote: »
    Mislead and false appearance is all over the site.

    'non profit making', 'volunteers' Implies a charity.

    No it doesn't.
    Ebico are a non-profit making organisation that supplies energy. Are they deceiving the public too?
    What about National Student Pride ? A "non profit making organisation voluntarily run by students". Charity? No. Another case of deception ???
    pgilc1 wrote: »
    'We also create employment within the UK and other countries for clothing collection staff, distribution staff and many others that may not normally be in employment.' So do many businesses, but they dont feel a need to put it on their website.
    How does that deceive anyone?
    pgilc1 wrote: »
    Every member of our team carry company indentification cards. This makes them sound like a charity.
    No it doesn't.
    Many companies insist their employees carry identification cards. Even more so if the employees call at peoples doors.
    Does that make all the utility suppliers a charity? How about the police?
    pgilc1 wrote: »
    All we request is that you supply all items in a clean, good condition as they will be re-used by other people in future. No, they will be SOLD to other people in the future.
    So are you suggesting the donated items will not be used by others?

    pgilc1 wrote: »
    Registered in England and Wales No 07121674. Missing the words 'as a limited company' - makes them sound like a charity.
    Doesn't need to. Lots of companies have this, us included, and we are certainly not a charity.
    The 'Ltd' is attached to the company name - the only place it needs to be.
    pgilc1 wrote: »
    A small drop of help from yourself can help to support poor families, orphans and asylums around the world. By selling them your clothes, not giving them to them.
    :huh:
    The request is for you to donate your unwanted items to the company - they are not expecting to pay you for them.
    They do not hide the fact that they will then sell the items.
    ...Our bags are collected to be sold and distributed to help people
    who cannot afford to buy their own clothing...
    So no deception there either.

    pgilc1 wrote: »
    Also, we're not the only ones debating whether or not its deception...

    http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,558097,558124

    http://www.westdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?4,5704

    Also, i think their category definition is interesting from companies house...

    http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/93ae2632e9c6756ab06f05457823dc13/compdetails

    'Retail second-hand goods in stores'

    All the more surprising you haven't been able to post any evidence of deception then... :cool:
    "Now to trolling as a concept. .... Personally, I've always found it a little sad that people choose to spend such a large proportion of their lives in this way but they do, and we have to deal with it." - MSE Forum Manager 6th July 2010
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