Final meter reading given to new supplier they used estimate instead

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  • twokcc
    twokcc Posts: 243 Forumite
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    naedanger wrote: »
    I appreciate my question was generic and not specific to Eon, so thanks for the reply.

    Unfortunately I don't think it answers my questions, which concerns the process that should be followed when a customer submits an actual reading (in the correct manner) when switching supplier.

    I would assume the customer's actual reading should be used by both suppliers, provided of course that the customer submits it to the correct supplier in a timely manner. Is this correct?

    (I can see the need for an industry standard process when two suppliers cannot agree an estimate between them. However if they have an accurate reading I cannot understand why there is any estimation process. And indeed I cannot see how they can contractually or legally justify using an estimate in that circumstance.)

    This was my thinking I cant understand why having been given a meter reading(on the same day as it was requested) that a supplier should not legally be required to produce an account based on that reading.
    Noted comments about giving 'incorrect readings' for me always take a photo of meter reading on date its given-nearly always carry phone about so much easier than writing down in diary.
    Would be interesting to test legally but someone else will have to take that challenge on - already spent to much unproductive time on this switch but once again thanks for all the replies
  • Rubidium
    Rubidium Posts: 663 Forumite
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    I believe that using estimates when actual reads have been supplied is due to the suppliers moving onto new billing systems, as it is now happening on several suppliers when it never did previously.
  • superbigal36
    superbigal36 Posts: 734 Forumite
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    edited 20 November 2015 at 3:21PM
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    Hi Twokcc.........
    I had exactly the same thing happen about 2 years ago when I moved to FU from Scottish Power.
    It took forever to sort out even though I had all the proof of meter readings etc etc etc.
    In the end FU had to wait until my actual reading overtook the wrong reading that had been used !!!!
    I think it took about 8 months for that to happen.
    HTH


    My father in law is having more fun. Due to reversed readings (Suppliers fault) Gas/Elec at a switch they estimated one (Fair enough) but left the other.
    He wont reach the start read of his gas for about 5 years :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
    They just dont seem to want to or can sort it.
    He continues to pay a DD for more than enough but every reading (Even from Meter Readers) just gets rejected and gives an estimate.
    I suspect changing suppliers again would cause much amusement. In theory the gas supplier owes him about £4000 at the moment.
    Who knows how this will come out in the wash.

    NB The exit reading used was also wrong (And not the same as above) but not far away. So he did not get a £4000 bill from the old supplier.

    I thought the system did not allow the end/start reads to be different let alone 7000 gas units
  • Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc
    Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc Posts: 6,558 Organisation Representative
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    cameltoe wrote: »
    Thanks Malc but something has changed of late. I have switched many times over the years and only recently have actual supplied reads been changed into stupid estimated reads.

    Previously the readings that I have supplied have always been used.

    Currently two suppliers are waiting for my money due to this and that is their loss and it is totally unnecessary!
    cameltoe wrote: »
    I believe that using estimates when actual reads have been supplied is due to the suppliers moving onto new billing systems, as it is now happening on several suppliers when it never did previously.

    Thanks for the update cameltoe. Must admit, not aware of anything different from our end as regards the opening bill. Can't speak for other suppliers but we haven't changed our billing system of late. We did introduce faster switching earlier this year so accounts now move over in about two and half weeks. This won't affect the meter readings being validated though. They'll still need to go down this route as before.

    Although opening bills won't be affected, it could possibly have an impact on closing bills if losing suppliers jump the gun and issue their final bill to estimates before all the information's through. This is easily put right where the difference is more than the thresholds. As above, an ARD can be used. Not so easy where it's below. I'm guessing though and could be way off beam.

    Thanks again for the update cameltoe.

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc
    Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc Posts: 6,558 Organisation Representative
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    naedanger wrote: »
    I appreciate my question was generic and not specific to Eon, so thanks for the reply.

    Unfortunately I don't think it answers my questions, which concerns the process that should be followed when a customer submits an actual reading (in the correct manner) when switching supplier.

    I would assume the customer's actual reading should be used by both suppliers, provided of course that the customer submits it to the correct supplier in a timely manner. Is this correct?

    (I can see the need for an industry standard process when two suppliers cannot agree an estimate between them. However if they have an accurate reading I cannot understand why there is any estimation process. And indeed I cannot see how they can contractually or legally justify using an estimate in that circumstance.)

    You're welcome naedanger. Always happy to reply. Sorry I didn't answer your query. You're right, I was talking specifically about the process from our point of view and what happens when our advisors come across this type of situation. As far as I'm aware, most if not all suppliers, use a similar process but can't speak for them. For a wider explanation, might be useful to ask the regulator?

    Malc
    Official Company Representative
    I am an official company representative of E.ON. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • naedanger
    naedanger Posts: 3,102 Forumite
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    You're welcome naedanger. Always happy to reply. Sorry I didn't answer your query. You're right, I was talking specifically about the process from our point of view and what happens when our advisors come across this type of situation. As far as I'm aware, most if not all suppliers, use a similar process but can't speak for them. For a wider explanation, might be useful to ask the regulator?

    Malc

    OK Thanks. (In practice I suspect I would be happy with an estimate most of the time. But I might get stubborn, and insist on my reading being used, if I thought a supplier was telling me something that wasn't true.)
  • Wolf3
    Wolf3 Posts: 216 Forumite
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    Unfortunately I don't think it answers my questions, which concerns the process that should be followed when a customer submits an actual reading (in the correct manner) when switching supplier.

    From memory, the customer reading is submitted to a 3rd party (Data Aggregator??) for validation and can be rejected if it does not fall in line with the previous Data Collectors previous validated reads or is not submitted in the correct time frame. The 3rd party (DA) then generate an estimated read based on what they expect the reading to be and if their is any dispute this can be raised at a later time.

    I'm presuming, if the OP submitted their read on time, the previous DC have validated an estimated read higher than the customer's read given, or Eon didn't submit the read in time. As previously described the estimated read can only disputed if the difference is greater than a set industry level
  • twokcc
    twokcc Posts: 243 Forumite
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    [QUOTE=

    I'm presuming, if the OP submitted their read on time, the previous DC have validated an estimated read higher than the customer's read given, or Eon didn't submit the read in time. As previously described the estimated read can only disputed if the difference is greater than a set industry level[/QUOTE]

    Not sure how Coop could have possibly made even a reasonably accurate estimate in my case. I was asked for a meter readings mid April which were used to produce a bill. Didn't receive any further communication from Coop until I'd advised them I was leaving in Mid September. Actual usage was 130 units for 5 months billed for 180 units because or EON's 'systems error' nearly a not insignificant error of nearly 40%.
    Even with the wrong final meter reading was a load of hassle trying to get Coop to produce a final bill but thats another story!
    Still awaiting repayment of small credit that is due on account,
  • Wolf3
    Wolf3 Posts: 216 Forumite
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    Not sure how Coop could have possibly made even a reasonably accurate estimate in my case. I was asked for a meter readings mid April which were used to produce a bill. Didn't receive any further communication from Coop until I'd advised them I was leaving in Mid September.

    The estimated reading i'm talking about is regarding the Data Aggregator systems which are completely separate from the reads you would see on your bill. The readings any customer sees on their bills are produced through your suppliers billing systems and should be entered according to how often the meter is read by the customer or meter reader or how often prepayment meters are topped up, usually, every quarter or 6 monthly period. The Data Aggregator uses a seperate system that are used to ensure that the supplier is paying the correct amounts to the relevant generation/distribution provider in your area and use a combination of customer reads, meter readers input and system generated estimates based upon what they would expect your consumption to be.

    In your scenario, its possible the DA has estimated a reading higher than the reading you submitted to Eon as your opening read and have rejected this proposal. This system was put in place to make sure neither supplier billed you for the same energy used and would only be amended if the difference between the correct reading was greater than 250 units. I know its not helpful but these rules were put in place when the energy sector was privatized and the cost of Electricity and Gas meant the difference was a negligible amount. AFAIK the thresholds for Gas and Electricity disputes hasn't changed since then.

    Although the way you describe Eon's "system error" could also imply they messed up and didn't submit your meter reading on time which led to the estimated transfer reading being produced :( although you could have spoken to an adviser who didn't know the transfer process correctly and gave you the wrong information/soundbite.
  • EvUK
    EvUK Posts: 2 Newbie
    edited 6 March 2017 at 12:51PM
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    This is the second time I have switched and this problem did not occur before. My submitted closing readings have been changed by this invisible middle man and apparently within the tolerances. It is true that the result may be small in cost but I simply object to estimated readings being used (on what basis) when actual ones were submitted (and at the very last moment of supply by the old supplier EON). This will of course affect the immediate usage history (in the winter months).
    It is quite simple - if there was no problem with your submission of reading to the previous supplier then the ones you give should be used. Obviously there may be problem accounts, etc when some other form of action would be justified but this is simply interference and I believe treats users as being basically dishonest.
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