Stocks & Shares ISAs

jimjames · 6 January 2017 at 2:04PM

supersabw wrote: »

The issue about not conveying to me that cashing in my "medium-risk" investment at ANY stage would require the purchase of more advice is not being addressed.

There is absolutely no requirement to purchase advice to sell units in a fund so it was totally correct to not convey to you that it was required. You could do it today if you wanted. It's a shame that you seem to be ignoring all the information that you've been given because it doesn't fit your view and thanking a reply that was actually incorrect.

supersabw wrote: »

- I did almost lose the lot, down to 10% of the original investment not long after making it "buying high, would-be selling low". I hadn't been told I would be "buying high" by long or short term history.

In the early to late 1990s the UK & US stock markets were on a pretty much linear increase. So any point that you bought was likely to be a high point relative to previous levels. Yet it carried on increasing.
I can't see any events for those markets where prices dropped 90% so are your dates adrift or was it not a medium risk fund? Which fund exactly is it?

You can transfer your ISA to a new provider. You might find one like HL to be suitable as they can offer advice but be aware that some things on their website that you might consider to be advice are actually adverts.

Brand · 6 January 2017 at 6:11PM

jimjames wrote: »

There is absolutely no requirement to purchase advice to sell units in a fund so it was totally correct to not convey to you that it was required. You could do it today if you wanted. It's a shame that you seem to be ignoring all the information that you've been given because it doesn't fit your view and thanking a reply that was actually incorrect. . . .

You can transfer your ISA to a new provider. You might find one like HL to be suitable as they can offer advice but be aware that some things on their website that you might consider to be advice are actually adverts.

. . .

. . . or "opinion".

I like your posts Jim but I see his point. We are talking decades ago. He entered a relationship with a CIS financial advisor and bought a CIS product on the understanding he would receive full ongoing advice (not independent advice of course, but CIS customers would not have known the difference.
Are you really saying that tied advisors never gave advice (for good or bad) when customers asked about selling?
He then finds himself dropped during the panic salvage of CIS fund management and also that RDR, obsessed with the issue of independence and clarity of fees, did not cover past promises of advice to these legacy clients either.
I personally think it is disgraceful actually.
Am I wrong? Given the waste of space that the FCA is, should we realistically have expected anything better?

jimjames · 6 January 2017 at 10:36PM

Brand wrote: »

Are you really saying that tied advisors never gave advice (for good or bad) when customers asked about selling?

I can't believe they did. Considering no-one knows where the markets are going on a day to day basis I can't see how any advice on selling would be any different from a toss of a coin. If you need the money then sell, if you don't need it then keep invested.
I'm not saying that all was perfect in the 1990s, as someone who was sold a personal pension back then I know it definitely wasn't but I think it's a rather unrealistic expectation to think you'd be advised when to sell. Probably not helped by the OP not understanding the selling process but the process is not related to the timing.

Keep_pedalling · 7 January 2017 at 12:06AM

Brand wrote: »

. . .

. . . or "opinion".

I like your posts Jim but I see his point. We are talking decades ago. He entered a relationship with a CIS financial advisor and bought a CIS product on the understanding he would receive full ongoing advice (not independent advice of course, but CIS customers would not have known the difference.
Are you really saying that tied advisors never gave advice (for good or bad) when customers asked about selling?
He then finds himself dropped during the panic salvage of CIS fund management and also that RDR, obsessed with the issue of independence and clarity of fees, did not cover past promises of advice to these legacy clients either.
I personally think it is disgraceful actually.
Am I wrong? Given the waste of sdpace that the FCA is, should we realistically have expected anything better?

I had purchased CIS funds around the same time as supersabw, and I was certainly not under any impression that the advice was independent or that it would be ongoing. I must admit I only found out that I could not be given an exact price before placing a sell order until the first time I needed to sell some of my units, I did not however throw a hissy fit when I discovered that and neither was I expecting the guy at the other end of the to make a recommendation as the whether I should sell or not.

Nothing actually changed with the transfer to RL, the personal home visits from the reps ceased with CIS many years before that. Neither supersabw nor I have every paid for ongoing advice from CIS or RL and neither company has any case to answer. Obviously supersabw is never going to be happy with RL but he needs to put that behind him and move on.

Tykelass · 7 January 2017 at 12:25AM

Hi, I'm one of those people who has a mental block when it comes to understanding the nuances of my own finances.

I have 3 S&S ISAs. 2 with one company and one with another. In total their value is currently around £15-16k and rising; they are doing better than they have for a long time and I'm thinking now is a good time to bin them off as I fear BREXIT-related financial industry nervousness may ultimately have an adverse impact on them.

I have read the guide but its difficult for me as I'm just not financially savvy so I would be v grateful if someone could confirm whether I've understood.

I think that the way to do this is to transfer the funds into a new cash ISA as the advice seems to be that you should not just cash them in, then re-invest. I don't understand why though.

I'm a basic rate taxpayer. I have other savings on which I earn interest, but below the £1k per year threshold.

So my plan is to open a new cash ISA and transfer the funds in my S&S ISAs into it. Is that the right way to proceed and if so, why?

I should perhaps add that I haven't paid into these ISAs for years, they're just sitting there, changing hands every now and then as companies buy and sell each others' business.

Thanks v much, in advance.

dunstonh · 7 January 2017 at 1:22AM

I have 3 S&S ISAs. 2 with one company and one with another. In total their value is currently around £15-16k and rising; they are doing better than they have for a long time and I'm thinking now is a good time to bin them off as I fear BREXIT-related financial industry nervousness may ultimately have an adverse impact on them.

You havent said what you are invested in. What if you have little UK exposure?
Also, if you do have UK exposure and the position in the negotations takes a turn for the worse, then Sterling will likely fall in value further and push up the value of many UK equities.

Brexit is not going to create some major meltdown. In the scheme of things, it is a ripple on the global economy. There are far worse potential issues ahead than Brexit. Many of which we don't even know about yet.

So my plan is to open a new cash ISA and transfer the funds in my S&S ISAs into it. Is that the right way to proceed and if so, why?

Clerically correct although it may be the wrong thing to do based on your reasoning.

Keep_pedalling · 7 January 2017 at 1:27AM

Tykelass wrote: »

Hi, I'm one of those people who has a mental block when it comes to understanding the nuances of my own finances.

I have 3 S&S ISAs. 2 with one company and one with another. In total their value is currently around £15-16k and rising; they are doing better than they have for a long time and I'm thinking now is a good time to bin them off as I fear BREXIT-related financial industry nervousness may ultimately have an adverse impact on them.

I have read the guide but its difficult for me as I'm just not financially savvy so I would be v grateful if someone could confirm whether I've understood.

I think that the way to do this is to transfer the funds into a new cash ISA as the advice seems to be that you should not just cash them in, then re-invest. I don't understand why though.

I'm a basic rate taxpayer. I have other savings on which I earn interest, but below the £1k per year threshold.

So my plan is to open a new cash ISA and transfer the funds in my S&S ISAs into it. Is that the right way to proceed and if so, why?

I should perhaps add that I haven't paid into these ISAs for years, they're just sitting there, changing hands every now and then as companies buy and sell each others' business.

Thanks v much, in advance.

As long as the funds you hold contain sufficient diversity, they should weather the turbulence that Brexit will enevitably cause so unless you think you are going to need the cash in the short term I would not look to transfer them into virtually zero interest paying cash ISAs.

You might however want to think of moving them to alternative less risky funds. Which funds do you have?

supersabw · 7 January 2017 at 2:30AM

As previously, Brand's understanding is the closest to what happened to me. Everyone else is surmising, or going off their own personal experience - none of which reflects my experiences with the particular CIS reps that I dealt with at the time and over a longish period of time. It WAS the late 1990s, possibly one of the transactions may have touched on 2000. Yes, the steep drop DID occur - the CIS reps admitted it when I challenged them - I was led to believe it was a unique situation and unforeseeable. At my level of naivety I had no reason to challenge. I did refuse to do further business with them after that, but it didn't stop them keeping in contact and trying, so I had no reason to believe the CIS itself (with perhaps other advisors) would not still guide the selling process whenever I chose that to be. As far as I was concerned, I had paid for the end of the process along with the beginning. I don't have "hissy fits" and I am not a "compo seeker" (this terminology says more about the person/s doing the name-calling) and I resent this - at best - inaccurate and patronising terminology used to describe my genuine concerns about how I was misled. Yes, I was led to believe their advice was "independent" and that it would be "ongoing" - ie there when I would need it. I didn't know the selling process but naively believed I wouldn't need to. I feel I am of the same ilk as Tykelass - financial affairs are not and never will be my forte. I do appreciate guidance offered in a respectful way, but not from sources that show a total lack of acceptance or understanding of what actually happened to me, who even doubt the truth and validity of what I'm saying, and use derogatory language about me. It says at the top of the page "Be nice to other Moneysavers" and ML is ALWAYS respectful to people. You'd never hear him accusing someone of "hissy-fits" or being a "compo-seeker". He is a gentleman. Brand, if you are able to offer any further guidance, I will happily try to learn from whatever suggestions or guidance that you offer. My personal circumstances mean I don't have to sell immediately unless it's prudent to, (though may need to within 2-5 years if other areas of my life don't go well, perhaps 10 years if things improve), but also don't want to risk that awful feeling of losing almost everything all over again. If that fear is exaggerated or unfounded, I am happy to continue on whatever basis seems the best way forward.

dunstonh · 7 January 2017 at 2:25PM

Everyone else is surmising, or going off their own personal experience -

Or relying on the facts.

It WAS the late 1990s, possibly one of the transactions may have touched on 2000. Yes, the steep drop DID occur - the CIS reps admitted it when I challenged them

I looked up the history of the fund and performance figures going back to launch in 2000. It has never had a period when it lost 90% of its value.

the CIS reps admitted it when I challenged them - I was led to believe it was a unique situation and unforeseeable.

Period of losses and crashes are not unique. They are not unforeseeable in respect that you know they are always coming. They are unforeseeable as to when they will actually come.

As far as I was concerned, I had paid for the end of the process along with the beginning.

Well, you no know that is not correct.

Yes, I was led to believe their advice was "independent" and that it would be "ongoing" - ie there when I would need it.

If their advice was independent, then didnt you think it was a bit strange that the CIS sales rep wasnt called an independent financial adviser and that they recommended a CIS product with CIS funds?

I do appreciate guidance offered in a respectful way, but not from sources that show a total lack of acceptance or understanding of what actually happened to me, who even doubt the truth and validity of what I'm saying, and use derogatory language about me.

The responses to you have shown a great deal of tolerance. You are the one that brought up compensation and where the facts have been laid out to you regarding the status of the company and their agent, you have either totally ignored them or have been very negative in your response. You only accept what you want to hear.

supersabw · 7 January 2017 at 4:33PM

Dunstonh -Seems you don't approve of Martin Lewis's crusades to get justice/change for those of us who have been misled, then. What are you doing on his forums -questioning the veracity of the experiences of people who dare to question the fairness of what and how they were sold financial products, and trying to crawl out of the oblivion they find themselves in? Tolerance? Who do you think you are! Your arrogance does not belong on the website of the great man himself who chooses to debunk the myths pedalled by "advisors" of many generations (many before "Independent Financial Advisor" was even part of the industry's parlance) and whose modus operandi is to respectfully encourage us to challenge. Were it not for Martin Lewis, those of us whose skills lie elsewhere would still be the victims of an industry shrouded in mystery and mystique and disparagement; but Martin leads the way of clarity and being unafraid of the false "gods" of the sector - by showing us respect and encouragement. Please grace another thread with your brand of "expertise", whilst I try to benefit from those who I have the right to choose to liaise with. Your self-made strap-line says it all about you....

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