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ECP POPLA appeal almost ready to submit - which grounds of appeal are irrelevant?

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Hello all,

After searching the boards a ton, I've now drafted and redrafted my POPLA appeal against Euro Car Parks and I'm just about ready to submit it, but I wanted to check that I've not included a load of irrelevant sections.

I based the appeal on the templates in the Newbies section, as well as on one of the very long examples linked to from there, though that was a Parking Eye example. As a result, I'm not sure if everything is relevant to this case.

With all my pictures, it's 26 pages long! (And that's single-spaced, size 12 font, 2cm borders.) Don't worry - I'm not going to post it here.

Context:

The driver parked in a Wetherspoons car park, where they've been parking on a weekly basis for the past three years. Over that time, the parking rules were 90 minutes free, and if you overstayed you could just pay for the extra time at the machine.

At some point over the summer, ECP changed the charges (I asked when this happened in my initial appeal, but they didn't respond to that in their form rejection letter), but did not put up any signs to make it clear. The whole duration of the driver's stay (around 80 minutes) was therefore against the new rules.

From browsing online, it seems that a lot of other people have caught out by this: the first thing they knew about the changes in charges was receiving a NtK, as was the case here.

So my main point of appeal is the lack of signage making it clear that there has been a change in charges, but I've gone overboard with other areas because I'm concerned that the BPA only recommends temporary signs as "best practice" rather than stating "you need to do this" - do I have grounds to call ECP's practice a "breach" of the BPA CoP?

The BPA code of practice states, ‘Where there is a change in the terms and conditions that materially affects the motorist then you must make these terms and conditions clear on your signage. Where such changes impose liability where none previously existed then you must consider a transition to allow regular visitors to the site to adjust and familiarise themselves with the changes. Best practice would be the installation of additional/temporary signage at the entrance and throughout the site making it clear that new terms and conditions apply. This will ensure such that regular visitors who may be familiar with the previous terms become aware of the new ones.’

The following are the (many) grounds of appeal. I'm baffled by some of them, but especially by #5 - based on the limited info here, is that relevant to ECP?

Thanks massively for any advice or suggestions.


1. Recent changes to the parking charges have not been indicated by signs nor have drivers been alerted in any other way – a breach of the BPA Code of Practice.

2. The signs in this car park are not prominent, clear or legible from all parking spaces and there is insufficient notice of the sum of the parking charge itself.

3. The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact the driver who may have been potentially liable for the charge.

4. There is no evidence of Landowner Authority. The operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice.

5. Failure to comply with the data protection 'ICO Code of Practice' applicable to ANPR (no information about SAR rights, no privacy statement, no evaluation to justify that 24/7 ANPR enforcement at this site is justified, fair and proportionate). A serious BPA Code of Practice breach

6. No Evidence of Period Parked – Notice to Keeper does not meet PoFA 2012 requirements

7. Vehicle Images contained in PCN: BPA Code of Practice – non-compliance

8. The ANPR System is Neither Reliable nor Accurate

9. The Signs Fail to Transparently Warn Drivers of what the ANPR Data will be used for.

10. No Planning Permission from Sheffield City Council for Pole-Mounted ANPR Cameras and no Advertising Consent for signage
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Comments

  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 58,246 Forumite
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    Forget point 8 unless you can prove to the assessor the scameras are not fit for purpose. We know they are not but you are dealing with scammers.

    With regard to the "best practice" point, just state that no temporary signs were installed therefore this was a breach of the BA CoP.

    Are there any other PoFA failures in the NTK?

    What happened when you complained to the pub manager/brewer CEO? I would hope that they would want to retain a long standing customer.

    Don't forget to complain to your MP about this unregulated scam.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • El_spectre
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    Thanks, Fruitcake. I'll delete section 8 and keep my stern wording about CoP breaches for not alerting drivers to new charges.

    The manager at the pub itself (Wetherspoons, unsurprisingly) doesn't care at all - there are a lot of people complaining on TripAdvisor about the charges, as well as on Facebook etc, and the manager repeatedly states that it's fair, because if you buy a £3 ticket for 2 hours (the minimum), you get a refund from the pub if you spend over £5. To be honest, I'm not completely sure the staff there knew about the changes - they assured customers that parking was free for 90 minutes even after it had changed.

    I'll definitely be complaining to the MP of that area. Sadly, I can't complain to mine, because it happens to be one Jared O'Mara...

    I'm not very sure about PoFA issues. They only give images of the licence plate in the NtK, and they only mention that the car entered and departed the car park, rather than was parked. In their rejection to my appeal they gave fuller images of the car entering and leaving, but obviously it wasn't actually parked.
  • MistyZ
    MistyZ Posts: 1,820 Forumite
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    Have you complained to the CEO John Hutson? Usually much better to go to the top than to managers.
  • El_spectre
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    Hi MistyZ,


    I have his name and email already written down, so I'm going to do that as soon as I've put in the appeal.
  • El_spectre
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    I've submitted the POPLA, finally, and await ECP's 'evidence' . . .


    Thanks so much for the templates, links to appeals and ongoing advice. I would definitely have just paid up immediately if it wasn't for this forum.



    Now to write to my MP and the CEO of Wetherspoons.



    Is it ever worthwhile complaining to the BPA?
  • El_spectre
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    ECP have responded to my appeal by attaching the same 32-page document(!) THREE times! Is that usual? It seems like the standard response they give to everyone, though I'm a little bit frustrated that they haven't immediately backed down, even though I didn't really expect them to.



    Their actual response only begins on page 17, and only two pages are actual responses. The rest is 'evidence'.



    They haven't responded to my key reason for appeal - the change from being a no fee car park to there being a charge - and their evidence of all their signs helpfully shows how illegible they are.



    I think the only grounds they've really responded to properly are showing landowner authority.


    Any particular tips in responding to this stuff? I'm going to struggle with only 2000 characters . . .
  • The_Deep
    The_Deep Posts: 16,830 Forumite
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    [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten of these tickets are scams so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra work.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted


    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies[/FONT]
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • Le_Kirk
    Le_Kirk Posts: 22,312 Forumite
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    You just refute every point they make by using bullet points. If they are silent on a point you have made, then you take it that they have agreed your point. Have they included a copy of the agreement between themselves and landowner?
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,730 Forumite
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    Any particular tips in responding to this stuff? I'm going to struggle with only 2000 characters . . .
    We assume you read the section about comments on POPLA evidence, in post #3 of the NEWBIES?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • El_spectre
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    Thanks, The Deep - I've just sent a pretty comprehensive email to the local MP, which I meant to do much earlier.



    And thank you, Le_Kirk - I'm now going to cross-reference their response with my appeal.



    They did include a document that purports to be proof of landowner authority - it's confusingly titled "BPA Code of Practice", and it's 4 pages long, but it does have the signatures of the Wetherspoons director and the Euro Car Park director and contains an agreement between the two. However, it only refers to "the sites listed in Appendix 2", which they haven't included. Is that grounds to say there's no proof of landowner authority since it doesn't specify this particular pub and car park?


    Thanks again - really appreciate all the advice. Part of me wishes I'd just paid the £45 because this is too much work, but that makes me feel angry because that's their whole intention, isn't it?
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