Block paving nightmare... Please help

Legacy_user · 11 October 2018 at 8:01PM

Evening all.

I don't even know where to start

My partner and I have wanted our drive block paved for about 4 years. Its the last big smjob we have to do to our home. We have just had our first born so money is not what it was for now. We saw a few houses that had their drives done and they looked lovely. I thought about getting a quote but decided to leave it. However when we got home they had pushed a leaflet through the door (clearly telling the us our drive needed help) so I phoned for a quote. The chap came round and said £6k but if we had it done in the next few days £5k. He went off and we decided we just couldn't do it so I sent a message thanking him and told him once circumstances change (maternity ended) then I would be in touch. He sent a message back to say he would look at the price and we did not have to pay straight away. I said 5hats very kind of you but we aren't the sort to not pay for work, and understand as a business man he will have bills etc. Next thing he is at the door saying look I really want this job. Basically our house is on the corner so an awful lot of traffic goes by so he said he knows it will get him more work. He said £4,200 which was awfully tempting. We would need to do a 0% credit card money transfer so we said depending if we could get it we would go for it. We managed to get £4k exactly so I told him this and he said well I will have to do it for that then. I said you don't have to do anything. He said no don't worry I will. So here we are. Yesterday they came and dug most of the drive up and laid hardcore down. My partner would be doing this job himself had he have the time as he is an engineer and more than capable. He was worried about the lack of hardcore and the steepness that they had created at the bottom of the drive which had been filled with tarmac. I was getting anxious so I sent him a text asking him if we could speak as my partner had some concerns. Our cars are really low at the front and there is no way they are going to clear what they have done to get on to the drive. He called and my partner spoke to him. He basically said we were doing nothing but questioning him and that we should leave him to get on with it. He said shall I leave it as it is and you pay me for what I've done. I'm in such a state over this. So tonight my partner tried to get the car on the front part of the drive and the bottom of the car scraped it. How the heck do we approach this guy? What are our rights? To make matters worse once he started the work he told us he was a traveller but does a first class job. He looks the part, speaks it. We even went to people's houses across town to find out what they thought of him and were they happy with the work he had done. So we did research but they don't advertiwe the fact they are travellers. The work he has done on others is lovely. But he has just turned really unapproachable. I'm worried he is going to just leave it as it is and make us pay for it. What do we do? Please help

sevenhills · 11 October 2018 at 9:29PM

What has he done to make the drive steeper, surely it will be the same?

System · 11 October 2018 at 9:35PM

The drive was a mess when we moved in very uneven dipped in the middle etc. So where they have cut out some of the path to retarmac they have done it on a steep angle up to the drive. So when my partner tried this evening to drive up to it it crunched and scraped it its not even been paved yet

Doozergirl · 11 October 2018 at 10:08PM

The black paving would build it back up though, wouldn't it?

I do understand the problem with steep slants coming over pavements with my car. The way to get around it is to back the car up, not go in forwards. Obviously you want to keep the tranition smooth though - it might just be a case of more hardcore. I can't see what you've had done.

It's either a case of negotiation or cutting your losses. If he is a traveller then it's fair to say there's no address to serve notice on in future. Buying from anyone on your doorstep is never a good idea.

System · 12 October 2018 at 5:34AM

We shouldn't have to get round it by reversing on. It should be a drive that we can pull on to forwards and backwards. It was on the door step buying we did research 5 well established homes have just been done near us and we went across town to speak to people about some that had been done a few years ago. We reviewed their we page also. No all hardcore is down today they are supposed to be laying the bricks.

Doozergirl · 12 October 2018 at 6:31AM

You're missing the point. The hardcore isn't all down if you go out there and "just like to make sure that the transition is smooth".

If you know they're good then that's all you have to do. Frame your language positively, don't go out there saying "I'm worried about this". If he's tetchy then you have to manage your words carefully and treat them like they are helping you and you are working together, not like you don't trust them.

If you've done due diligence and checked lots of other drives, there's no reason not to trust them. Posting under old 'cowboy builder' threads isn't helping your state of mind.

traineepensioner · 12 October 2018 at 8:23AM

Lottie_1987 wrote: »

Evening all.

I don't even know where to start

...... To make matters worse once he started the work he told us he was a traveller but does a first class job. He looks the part, speaks it. We even went to people's houses across town to find out what they thought of him and were they happy with the work he had done. So we did research but they don't advertiwe the fact they are travellers....

They don't advertise that they're "travellers" for very good reasons. Cash in hand, no tax, no comebacks. Would you have employed them if they had told you upfront?

I've nearly been caught out once or twice and now I check for a landline, company registration & address and customer feedback. I also use google street map to check out the address and try to spot the works van.

teneighty · 12 October 2018 at 9:20AM

I don't quite follow the description so I cannot visualise the problem but if the OP hasn't actually paid any money yet they have the upper hand.

With a driveway it will only be as good as the sub-base/hardcore. If they have scimped on that and got the levels/gradients wrong then the paving blocks are likely to subside and move so you will end up with low spots and loose blocks.

From the sounds of it there isn't a written quotation so it will be difficult to establish exactly what they have quoted to do or the agreed scope of work. All I can suggest is that you get someone else to look at the work done so far and advise you if it is suitable. I don't know who that would be, you could try a reputable groundwork contractor but other contractors aren't always the most objective when it comes to looking at others work.

k3lvc · 12 October 2018 at 9:27AM

teneighty wrote: »

I don't quite follow the description so I cannot visualise the problem but if the OP hasn't actually paid any money yet they have the upper hand.

Your local 'groundwork contractors' must be more understanding of non-payment than ours :rotfl:

EachPenny · 12 October 2018 at 10:12AM

Lottie_1987 wrote: »

However when we got home they had pushed a leaflet through the door (clearly telling the us our drive needed help) so I phoned for a quote. The chap came round and said £6k but if we had it done in the next few days £5k. He went off and we decided we just couldn't do it so I sent a message thanking him and told him once circumstances change (maternity ended) then I would be in touch. He sent a message back to say he would look at the price and we did not have to pay straight away. I said 5hats very kind of you but we aren't the sort to not pay for work, and understand as a business man he will have bills etc. Next thing he is at the door saying look I really want this job. Basically our house is on the corner so an awful lot of traffic goes by so he said he knows it will get him more work. He said £4,200 which was awfully tempting. We would need to do a 0% credit card money transfer so we said depending if we could get it we would go for it. We managed to get £4k exactly so I told him this and he said well I will have to do it for that then.

...So we did research but they don't advertiwe the fact they are travellers. The work he has done on others is lovely.

The underlined bits are the advertisement, it is all part of the standard method of working for people who operate like this. The 'estimate' starts high, and is then dropped rapidly if they can do the work quickly. That should be a warning sign to anybody - conventionally you expect to pay more for work done in a hurry, slashing one-sixth off the price suggests either the contractor has people sitting around doing nothing (in which case ask yourself 'why') or is desperate for some quick income to stave off creditors. In either case the customer needs to be wary.

Whilst reputable tradespeople also need to put round flyers from time to time, the best ones will be so busy with work through recommendations that they don't need to advertise.

Some travellers do excellent high quality work, are reliable, and offer competitive prices. But unless they are an established business which you can thoroughly check up on (not just look at someone else's driveway) then you'll always be running a risk employing them.

This is a bit late for you now OP, but said so you know what to avoid next time, and for the benefit of others.

teneighty wrote: »

I don't quite follow the description so I cannot visualise the problem but if the OP hasn't actually paid any money yet they have the upper hand.

I would suggest this would be an unwise thing to think, and to take any action based upon.

If they entertain any notion of not paying the 'contractor' then they are liable to come home one day and find their driveway has vanished.

Suggesting to the contractor that you have any plan not to pay them the agreed amount will normally lead to the situation escalating. It may also result in the 'agreed amount' escalating.

By the sound of it the OP's best course of action is to let the 'contractor' get on and finish the job and hope the previously agreed £4000 settles the matter. Then if the work turns out to be a complete bodge look to employ a reputable company to relay the drive at some point in the future. It should be possible to reuse the blocks and bedding, so the future cost ought to be limited to the labour for taking up the existing, re-grading the sub-base, and then relaying the blocks on the reprofiled bed.

TW1234 · 12 October 2018 at 11:35AM

EachPenny wrote: »

I would suggest this would be an unwise thing to think, and to take any action based upon.

If they entertain any notion of not paying the 'contractor' then they are liable to come home one day and find their driveway has vanished.

Suggesting to the contractor that you have any plan not to pay them the agreed amount will normally lead to the situation escalating. It may also result in the 'agreed amount' escalating.

By the sound of it the OP's best course of action is to let the 'contractor' get on and finish the job and hope the previously agreed £4000 settles the matter. Then if the work turns out to be a complete bodge look to employ a reputable company to relay the drive at some point in the future. It should be possible to reuse the blocks and bedding, so the future cost ought to be limited to the labour for taking up the existing, re-grading the sub-base, and then relaying the blocks on the reprofiled bed.

It might be the best "pragmatic" answer, but you are saying that because the work has been done by members of the travelling community, normal business dispute procedures do not apply. That is appeasement.
I did not think there was anyone who still was unaware of the tarmac travelling cowboys.
If you are "up for it", alert your local neighborhood police officer, put 999 on speed dial and then refuse to pay, but invite the contractor to sue you in the small claims court. Be prepared for property damage and possible violence or threats, but you might avoid being sh**ft*d.
If they do remove the drive, it will still be cheaper and better to get it done properly.

Block paving nightmare... Please help

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