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Mortgage Exit Fees successes and failures

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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 26,612 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    walker5 wrote: »
    What i cannot understand is the wording
    I suggest you contact your mortgage provider for any clarification required. However, one thing is certain: you won't be getting a refund.
  • I moved house 3 times with C&G in the last 20 years, most of it during 'the noughties'. Going back through my own statements and other records, I couldn't find anything implying exit fee overcharging, but I thought I'd write to them anyway just to see.
    I was 'phoned back the very next day and they had already ascertained that I had been overcharged on 2 out of the 3 occasions. They gave me a mortgage-by-mortgage breakdown and immediately (within the hour) transferred £190 to my current account. However, they were not prepared to make an interest payment for the time that they had 'illegal' use of my money.
    I'm grateful to Money Saving Expert for putting me on to this but am nevertheless dismayed that such fee overcharges are not automatically refunded. It shouldn't be up to us to have to proactively claim.
  • Nasqueron
    Nasqueron Posts: 10,620 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    AgriMensor wrote: »
    I moved house 3 times with C&G in the last 20 years, most of it during 'the noughties'. Going back through my own statements and other records, I couldn't find anything implying exit fee overcharging, but I thought I'd write to them anyway just to see.
    I was 'phoned back the very next day and they had already ascertained that I had been overcharged on 2 out of the 3 occasions. They gave me a mortgage-by-mortgage breakdown and immediately (within the hour) transferred £190 to my current account. However, they were not prepared to make an interest payment for the time that they had 'illegal' use of my money.
    I'm grateful to Money Saving Expert for putting me on to this but am nevertheless dismayed that such fee overcharges are not automatically refunded. It shouldn't be up to us to have to proactively claim.

    This is known as a goodwill gesture, they do not accept any liability but it's cheaper to pay than to fight it. That is why you don't get any interest as they don't agree it was miss-sold but are just refunding you something.

    Nothing about this is illegal, it's a civil matter

    Sam Vimes' Boots Theory of Socioeconomic Unfairness: 

    People are rich because they spend less money. A poor man buys $10 boots that last a season or two before he's walking in wet shoes and has to buy another pair. A rich man buys $50 boots that are made better and give him 10 years of dry feet. The poor man has spent $100 over those 10 years and still has wet feet.

  • dunstonh
    dunstonh Posts: 119,594 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    However, they were not prepared to make an interest payment for the time that they had 'illegal' use of my money.

    This is because there is no wrongdoing by them. It is not illegal and they are not refunding something they shouldnt. interest is not added unless there is a wrongdoing.
    I'm grateful to Money Saving Expert for putting me on to this but am nevertheless dismayed that such fee overcharges are not automatically refunded.

    It was largely a retrospective decision by the regulator and lenders have gone a stage further than the FCA required by over refunding on many of these as the amounts are too small to cause an issue over. For example, on your £190, it has probably cost them over £500 so far. It is a commercial decision over one of right/wrong.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
  • ultimateandy
    ultimateandy Posts: 3 Newbie
    edited 25 September 2017 at 3:04PM
    Good afternoon all. First post, so my apologies in advance if this is a little less focused than with more experienced posters...

    First off, I hadn't realised that MEAFs were being treated in much the same way as PPI nowadays. So I'm very grateful to all at MoneySavingExpert for bringing it to my attention. That's because my story is possibly one of the worst you'll ever have heard. Even now, several years later, I get so distressed talking about that it brings me close to tears.

    Back in 2007 I took the plunge and did something I'd always wanted to do: to design and build a house of my own. I'll try to post a few photos as soon as I can work out how - mostly because, at the time, I was incredibly proud of what I was doing.

    Having researched the market for self-build mortgage companies, I settled on Amber Home Loans. Initially, things went smoothly and the build held few terrors. Like quite a few first-time self-builders, though, I decided to 'up' the spec a little as I went, to make sure the house was as perfect, and future-proof, as possible.

    I had a sizeable deposit at the outset (£225k+) and took out a mortgage with Amber for £236k. With that much equity in hand, I told Amber that my cashflows showed I would only need 4 of the 5 usual stages, handling the completion stage myself from my reserves.

    Each of the first three stage payments were released without any hitches, and when I realised I was going to need more money to complete, Amber were fine with this. I had a good job, was solvent, and everything up to this point had gone without a hitch. The extra funds I needed to complete and get my completion certificate were approved. However, this is where the story takes a very much darker turn.

    When I went back to Amber for completion funds - i.e: the 'missing' 5th stage payment - they agreed that, given the extremely low LTV (+/- 50%) they could foresee no problems.

    I completed the paperwork and paid the fee for the survey. This is where it gets interesting.

    With the build around 75% complete (we were at 2nd fix at the time), Amber appointed a surveyor with *NO* self-build experience whatsoever. I found out later from a local estate agent that he was well known within the business as a local 'panel' surveyor; he apparently only ever valued standard residential properties.

    So you can imagine my shock when he placed a 'nil' value on the work done up to that point (with documented expenditure of around £200k). In fact, he returned an overall valuation of £235k - a £15k drop on the price we paid for the land only - instead of something around the £400k mark. This made it look as if we had a 100% LTV (£236k loan against £235k valuation) and gave Amber grounds to refuse any further advances. I chalenged this valuation with Amber, but they told me that the surveyor was sticking with a nil valuation on the structure.

    By now, we were in early 2008, and the credit crunch hit, and Amber wrote to me to tell me they were closing their loan book with immediate effect, and no further funds would be made available. This left me in an impossible position: without the funds to complete stage four, I couldn't get a completion certificate and move in. Furthermore, without the completion certificate I couldn't turn to a conventional lender to remortgage. I was stuck. No way forward, and no way back.

    With deep misgivings, I was forced to take out multiple credit cards just in order to complete the build. This was bad enough - I've never had credit before - but took a deep breath and did what I had to do. The build was finished (cutting every remaining corner I possibly could) and I then approached Amber to remortgage. It was at this point that I learned they wouldn't close off my loan - a loan they themselves would no longer honour - without billing me a breathtaking amount. How breathtaking? Very... in fact, a simply staggering £14,347.94.

    I had no alternative: I had to pay the sum as I moved across to the Halifax, my bank at the time. This was a horribly bitter pill to swallow: it not only felt like highway robbery (which arguably it was) but there were no alternatives whatsoever.

    To add insult to injury, I then lost my job and the additional credit card burden and massive hole in our savings left by the exit fees meant that I had no option other than to be forced into an IVA, another arrangement which cost me countless additional thousands in arrangement and exit fees. Finally, the strain of all this cost me my marriage.

    I was so angry that I did, a few years later, ask a solicitor for a view on all this, but she wasn't terribly optimistic so I let it drop. I'm now wondering whether I have some recourse after all, hence my long and rambly post here. It won't get me my house back - long since sold to fund the divorce settlement - or my job, or my wife and children. But it might send a strong message to lenders like Amber, and give others the strength to stand up for what's right.

    So my question to everyone out there - and I'm sure I'm not alone here - is: what should I do next? With grateful thanks to all who reply, and for perhaps giving me a chance to finally get some justice.
  • IAmWales
    IAmWales Posts: 2,024 Forumite
    edited 25 September 2017 at 2:22PM
    Hi Andy,

    I'm sorry to say that there is very little you can do. Assuming the early redemption fee was detailed in your contract, then it is lawful. It's certainly not the same as PPI misselling.

    It sounds like you've had a rough few years. Best to try to put it behind you and move on.

    (To clarify, £25K would be an early repayment charge, not a mortgage exit administration fee.)
  • Thank you so much for the reply... I've just edited the post as the sum paid was £15k rather than £25k, but even so it's egregious. I do wonder whether there's any recourse here, if not through the MEAF process (I accept the difference between them now) then is some other way? Any thoughts? Could the FCA be worth a punt?
  • IAmWales wrote: »
    Hi Andy,

    I'm sorry to say that there is very little you can do. Assuming the early redemption fee was detailed in your contract, then it is lawful. It's certainly not the same as PPI misselling.

    It sounds like you've had a rough few years. Best to try to put it behind you and move on.

    (To clarify, £25K would be an early repayment charge, not a mortgage exit administration fee.)

    Thank you so much for the reply... I've just edited the post as the sum paid was £15k rather than £25k, but even so it's egregious. I do wonder whether there's any recourse here, if not through the MEAF process (I accept the difference between them now) then is some other way? Any thoughts? Could the FCA be worth a punt?
  • dunstonh
    dunstonh Posts: 119,594 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 25 September 2017 at 2:39PM
    First off, I hadn't realised that MEAFs were being treated in much the same way as PPI nowadays.

    They are not. The issues are very different and on a much smaller scale.

    In simple terms, the exit charges had started creeping upwards. From £50 - £95 - £150 to around £250 typically. There is no problem with the size of any of those fees. However, the regulator decided that the fee at exit should remain the same as it was at the point the last mortgage deal was bought. So, if it was £250 at the start, then it could only be £250 at the end.

    If the lender charged £250 when the fee at the start of the last deal you bought, let's say, £100, then you are entitled to the difference.

    It is important to note that an ERC is not the same as a MEAF.
    Would the FCA be worth a punt?

    The FCA do not handle consumer complaints. You are also likely to be timebarred (under the 3/6 year rules you have 6 years from purchase of the product or 3 years from being reasonably aware of an issue to raise a complaint.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
  • Just seen details on moneysavingexpert website about claiming back MEAF after browsing for info on PPI's this afternoon. Dug out some details on a mortgage that was redeemed in 2006 with TSB and they have repaid me in full £225 MEAF with £25 compensation and £12 as I was on the telephone for nearly an hour with them. Result. Thank you so much Martin Lewis.
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