Are virtual phone numbers used to scam?

Sparrow121 · 4 June 2016 at 2:30PM

Thank you for the information and reference unholyangel.

I'm a bit of a layman to contract terminology and wondered if you could clarify if I am understanding correctly please?

In the initial advert the trader should have advertised his location. After the phone call he then should have sent confirmation of the terms of the contract by a durable medium such as email or letter which would have provided location details and contract terms thus giving the opportunity to cancel before the call out occurred. A phone call is not classified as a durable means and the contract is invalid?

I hope I've understood that correctly as that is very good news if the case.

unholyangel · 4 June 2016 at 2:44PM

Sparrow121 wrote: »

Thank you for the information and reference.

I'm a bit of a layman to contract terminology and wondered if you could clarify if I am understanding correctly please?

In the initial advert the trader should have advertised his location. After the phone call he then should have sent confirmation of the terms of the contract by a durable medium such as email or letter which would have provided location details and contract terms thus giving the opportunity to cancel before the call out occurred. A phone call is not classified as a durable means and the contract is invalid?

I hope I've understood that correctly as that is very good news if the case.

The long and short of it is that before they started providing any service to you, they should have sent you confirmation of the contract via durable medium (ie email, fax, letter - websites & telephone calls aren't durable as they cannot be stored and reproduced - unedited - at a later date) telling you who they are, their address, the total price (and many many other details - all detailed in schedule 2 of the CCRs that I linked above).

Furthermore, they should only have begun provision of the service within the 14 day cooling off period at your request and with your acknowledgement that you would be unable to cancel without being liable for costs incurred.

Because they have not provided you with this contractual information as required by law, you were still within your rights to cancel the contract and without bearing any liability for any cost incurred in any service provided up until that point.

In other words, either ignore them or tell them to take a long walk off a short pier (paraphrasing of course).

Sparrow121 · 4 June 2016 at 4:51PM

unholyangel wrote: »

The long and short of it is that before they started providing any service to you, they should have sent you confirmation of the contract via durable medium (ie email, fax, letter - websites & telephone calls aren't durable as they cannot be stored and reproduced - unedited - at a later date) telling you who they are, their address, the total price (and many many other details - all detailed in schedule 2 of the CCRs that I linked above).

Furthermore, they should only have begun provision of the service within the 14 day cooling off period at your request and with your acknowledgement that you would be unable to cancel without being liable for costs incurred.

Because they have not provided you with this contractual information as required by law, you were still within your rights to cancel the contract and without bearing any liability for any cost incurred in any service provided up until that point.

In other words, either ignore them or tell them to take a long walk off a short pier (paraphrasing of course).

Thank you so much, you've been very helpful indeed!

Have a very good rest of your day

unholyangel · 4 June 2016 at 5:03PM

Glad we could help and thank you. Hope you enjoy yours as well and don't hesitate to keep us posted if there are any updates

ARandomMiser · 4 June 2016 at 7:04PM

unholyangel wrote: »

The long and short of it is that before they started providing any service to you, they should have sent you confirmation of the contract via durable medium (ie email, fax, letter - websites & telephone calls aren't durable as they cannot be stored and reproduced - unedited - at a later date) telling you who they are, their address, the total price (and many many other details - all detailed in schedule 2 of the CCRs that I linked above).

Furthermore, they should only have begun provision of the service within the 14 day cooling off period at your request and with your acknowledgement that you would be unable to cancel without being liable for costs incurred.

Because they have not provided you with this contractual information as required by law, you were still within your rights to cancel the contract and without bearing any liability for any cost incurred in any service provided up until that point.

In other words, either ignore them or tell them to take a long walk off a short pier (paraphrasing of course).

Hi unholyangel
Iam not questioning anything you have posted but is there not also a morality issue here and possibly exclusions? The two main questions i would have would be around
- i have never had a private hire taxi inform me of the price unless i ask. (but i would never run out on them)
- surely a verbal contract, as in this case has to count for something

unholyangel · 4 June 2016 at 7:34PM

ARandomMiser wrote: »

Hi unholyangel
Iam not questioning anything you have posted but is there not also a morality issue here and possibly exclusions? The two main questions i would have would be around
- i have never had a private hire taxi inform me of the price unless i ask. (but i would never run out on them)
- surely a verbal contract, as in this case has to count for something

Yes there are exemptions.

For example:

(3) This Part, except for regulation 14(1) to (5), does not apply to contracts to the extent that they are for passenger transport services.

(theres other reasons the taxi industry in particular wouldnt be affected also - given that normally the contract is formed between you and the driver, not you and the company - as the company are acting as an agent for the drivers).

The CCRs basically give you the right to cancel contracts concluded at a distance - so whether a contract was formed - verbally or not, isn't really the crux of the matter.

paddyrg · 4 June 2016 at 7:38PM

Just back to the headline question a moment - virtual numbers are /loved/ by scammers - did you know a +44702 number looks like it should be a UK mobile but can actually be diverted anywhere in the world for free - including your friendly 'Nigerian Prince' pretending to be in London from his Lagos caf! for his Gumtree scams.

agrinnall · 4 June 2016 at 8:29PM

unholyangel wrote: »

Yes there are exemptions.

For example:

(theres other reasons the taxi industry in particular wouldnt be affected also - given that normally the contract is formed between you and the driver, not you and the company - as the company are acting as an agent for the drivers).

The CCRs basically give you the right to cancel contracts concluded at a distance - so whether a contract was formed - verbally or not, isn't really the crux of the matter.

I'd also wonder whether the OP's situation is really covered, surely the point of a call out is that it's something that the customer expects to happen quickly, and certainly not to have to wait for a contract to arrive on durable media while the burst pipe carries on flooding the house (or whatever). From what you're saying anybody can ask for a call out and when the person turns up hear what they have to say then decline to pay anything. If that's really a consequence of the legislation then why would any company put their business at risk by attending an incident quickly and face the possibility of doing it for nothing?

unholyangel · 4 June 2016 at 8:54PM

agrinnall wrote: »

I'd also wonder whether the OP's situation is really covered, surely the point of a call out is that it's something that the customer expects to happen quickly, and certainly not to have to wait for a contract to arrive on durable media while the burst pipe carries on flooding the house (or whatever). From what you're saying anybody can ask for a call out and when the person turns up hear what they have to say then decline to pay anything. If that's really a consequence of the legislation then why would any company put their business at risk by attending an incident quickly and face the possibility of doing it for nothing?

As I said above, it depends on circumstances because there are exemptions (exemptions from the act in its entirety, from the requirement to provide pre-contractual information and also from the right to cancel - certain contract types may be excluded from one of the above but subject to the other).

But none of those exemptions applies to OP's circumstances.

This was a tv that was being picked up to be repaired at a later date - not a burst water pipe/gas pipe that could cause further damage.

Ian011 · 4 June 2016 at 10:15PM

I am under the impression that there have been regulations in place for many years that make it an offence to advertise as if you are based in one location when in reality you are based somewhere else.

I am also reminded of several Rogue Traders or Watchdog episodes in a similar vein. These featured TV repair or 'white goods' repair adverts showing London numbers but with the TV or appliance then taken to the midlands and then either never seen again or returned in a worse state than when it had first been taken away for repair.

Are virtual phone numbers used to scam?

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