Parking control management (PCM) ticket fine

helpneedednewbiew · 8 December 2019 at 3:07PM

Hi,

My mother got a PCN ticket on the 27/11/2019 in a private estate and the permit does not have a registration so I lent her my car whilst hers was getting fixed in the garage and she was using the permit in my car with me being the registered keeper. the permit on my car , she is 60 years old and alone. She has had a permit in her car for a some time now but the permit has deteriorated and cannot be read properly, I checked this after she messaged me and I came to have a look. She only told me on Saturday about it so I went over there this morning and it seems she has 3 days to appeal it, though I did read that is a scare tactic.

PCM, the company that gave her the parking charge or invoice as it is being referred to in the "Newbies" thread is an IPC AOS scheme member which I just checked.

If I appeal should I send a letter from which is addressed to my mothers full name and address about an unrelated matter from Notting Hill Genesis who looks after the estate?

How should I approach this please?

I thank you ever so much for any help and advice on what to do and how to deal with this.

Attachments uploaded.

Thank you in advance.

Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd
The vehicle is parked in a manner whereby the driver is liable to pay a parking charge notice as stated on the signage throughout the area.
Notice number: xxxxxxxx
For the following reason:
Operative XXXX has identified this vehicle is parked in a manner that contravenes the terms and conditions for the use of the private land on which it was observed and photographed.
Red on of issue: Displaying a tampered/copied/unreadable permit hence invalidating the permit.
At site name:
Xxxxxxxxx
Notice issued at : xxxxxxx
The period of parking to which this charge relates is that which immediately precedes the time of issue.
Vehicle registration: xxxxxx
Make: xxxxx Colour: xxxxxxx
A charge of £100 is now due within the next 28 days.
A discounted amount of £60 will be accepted as settlement for early payments (14 days)
Please see the reverse of this notice for further payment information.
Photographic evidence relating to this contravention can be viewed online at: paymypcn-uk co uk

The_Deep · 8 December 2019 at 3:14PM

Is this in a residential car ark?

If so read this

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]what does your lease/AST say about parking? Does it mention the need to display a permit? If not then it may take primacy over the self serving TnC of the scammer, and interfere with your lawful [/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]right to “quiet enjoyment” of your property, possible an offence under The Landlord and Tenants Acts.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP after the election, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT][/FONT]

Umkomaas · 8 December 2019 at 3:26PM

You can omit sentences that don't apply in the template initial appeal, but regardless of what it contains (except never imply who the driver was), it is irrelevant. The PPC will reject the appeal, and with an IPC operator, that's as far as you go. You then simply wait to see if the PPC issues court proceedings, you deal with that then with forum help.

Please note, this is your mother's case to deal with (as the registered keeper), you are not involved. By all means do the work on it for your mother, but it has to be in her name and under her signature. She must provide her name and address.

As this is a residential/permit situation, you should check very carefully what the deeds/lease/tenancy agreement says (or doesn't say) about parking.

Have you involved the managing agent looking after the estate and asked them to get the PCN cancelled?

Half_way · 8 December 2019 at 3:28PM

Why is a permit required?

The Deep has already hinted at something which could be of vital importance - is this a residential car park?

if it is then what rights to the car pakring space are given by the lease/freehold/rental/tenancy, these will trump any made up rules from a third party parking company with stuff about permits

helpneedednewbiew · 8 December 2019 at 4:19PM

Hi The Deep,

Yes, it is a residential car park as my mother has a permit to park in the car park where she has been allocated a specific space. Furthermore on the residents permits, does not have the reg of the car either after checking other cars in the car park.

I asked her about the lease but she is a council tenant and she can't remember where it is or if she has been given one. Am trying to help her look for it.

Sorry, what is an "AST"?

I read the link you sent and it has some good information, thanks but still not sure if I should appeal and if I should include an unrelated letter addressed to her by the council with her full name and address?

Thank you.

I wrote out the actual PCN word for word below as cannot add links or images:

Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd
The vehicle is parked in a manner whereby the driver is liable to pay a parking charge notice as stated on the signage throughout the area.
Notice number: xxxxxxxx
For the following reason:
Operative XXXX has identified this vehicle is parked in a manner that contravenes the terms and conditions for the use of the private land on which it was observed and photographed.
Red on of issue: Displaying a tampered/copied/unreadable permit hence invalidating the permit.
At site name:
Xxxxxxxxx
Notice issued at : xxxxxxx
The period of parking to which this charge relates is that which immediately precedes the time of issue.
Vehicle registration: xxxxxx
Make: xxxxx Colour: xxxxxxx
A charge of £100 is now due within the next 28 days.
A discounted amount of £60 will be accepted as settlement for early payments (14 days)
Please see the reverse of this notice for further payment information.
Photographic evidence relating to this contravention can be viewed online at: paymypcn-uk co uk

helpneedednewbiew · 8 December 2019 at 4:25PM

Umkomaas wrote: »

You can omit sentences that don't apply in the template initial appeal, but regardless of what it contains (except never imply who the driver was), it is irrelevant. The PPC will reject the appeal, and with an IPC operator, that's as far as you go. You then simply wait to see if the PPC issues court proceedings, you deal with that then with forum help.

Please note, this is your mother's case to deal with (as the registered keeper), you are not involved. By all means do the work on it for your mother, but it has to be in her name and under her signature. She must provide her name and address.

As this is a residential/permit situation, you should check very carefully what the deeds/lease/tenancy agreement says (or doesn't say) about parking.

Have you involved the managing agent looking after the estate and asked them to get the PCN cancelled?

Hi Umkomaas,

I will omit the sentences as advised but it won't leave me with much though.

So I should appeal then?
Should I add my mother's unrelated letter with her full name and address?

OK, I will appeal as her too.

It is a residential car park where the council gave the permit to her but the permits dontt even have a registration of the vehicle on them. She has no idea where the lease is or if she was given it, currently looking for it.

I will try and find the managing agent too, this is not the estate manager is it?

Thanks.

helpneedednewbiew · 8 December 2019 at 4:42PM

Half_way wrote: »

Why is a permit required?

The Deep has already hinted at something which could be of vital importance - is this a residential car park?

if it is then what rights to the car pakring space are given by the lease/freehold/rental/tenancy, these will trump any made up rules from a third party parking company with stuff about permits

Hi Half_Way,

I am assuming a permit is required as it is a private car park for the estate of flats only and to deter others who do not have a permit parking there.

Yes, this is a residential car park, there are a few flats in the estate and whomever has paid the annual fee, are provided with a standard permit to park in their allocated space.

Currently trying to find the lease/freehold/rental/tenancy to check the rules/terms of the parking.

Thanks.

waamo · 8 December 2019 at 4:44PM

I would send it unaltered. The odds are they won't even read it. What it does is set your stall out and mark you as a difficult target for court.

helpneedednewbiew · 8 December 2019 at 5:45PM

waamo wrote: »

I would send it unaltered. The odds are they won't even read it. What it does is set your stall out and mark you as a difficult target for court.

Hi waamo,

Should I should appeal within the 14 days then? Also, should I add my mothers unrelated letter with her full name and address to prove she is a resident on the estate?

If so, then I will use the unaltered template found in the newbies thread, as you said, it probably won't even be read.

Thanks.

waamo · 8 December 2019 at 5:54PM

As above the appeal needs to be in your mothers name. I wouldn't bother adding extra evidence as they won't care. Send it when you like as long as it isn't late.

Start preparing for the eventual court claim. Get things like a copy of the lease so you can go through it at a reasonable pace.

Umkomaas · 9 December 2019 at 1:12PM

helpneedednewbiew wrote: »

Hi,

My mother got a PCN ticket on the 27/11/2019, she is 60 years old and alone. She has had a permit in her car for a some time now but the permit has deteriorated and cannot be read properly, I checked this after she messaged me and I came to have a look. She only told me on Saturday about it so I went over there this morning and it seems she has 3 days to appeal it, though I did read that is a scare tactic.

Umkomaas wrote: »

Please note, this is your mother's case to deal with (as the registered keeper), you are not involved. By all means do the work on it for your mother, but it has to be in her name and under her signature. She must provide her name and address.

waamo wrote: »

As above the appeal needs to be in your mothers name. I wouldn't bother adding extra evidence as they won't care. Send it when you like as long as it isn't late.

Start preparing for the eventual court claim. Get things like a copy of the lease so you can go through it at a reasonable pace.

The story seems to have changed - this from PePiPoo. Seemingly it is not the mother's car, it's the OP's.

My mother got a PCN ticket on the 27/11/2019 in a private estate and the permit does not have a registration so I lent her my car whilst hers was getting fixed in the garage and she was using the permit in my car with me being the registered keeper. the permit on my car , she is 60 years old and alone. She has had a permit in her car for a some time now but the permit has deteriorated and cannot be read properly, I checked this after she messaged me and I came to have a look. She only told me on Saturday about it so I went over there this morning and it seems she has 3 days to appeal it, though I did read that is a scare tactic.

OP - you need to confirm exactly what the position is, because if it is as per PePiPoo, some of the previous advice given by us on this thread is incorrect.

As IanEmanresu once said, posting on two forums doesn't get twice the advice, just twice the confusion. Sage words.

Parking control management (PCM) ticket fine

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