Conservatory fitting issue
Options
Comments
-
The golden rules for your meeting with the MD is crystal clear. I expect you have already done so but here goes and apologies for stating the obvious. Have an independent, reputable, witness present. Introduce the person as such. Issue an Agenda for the meeting. Have your documents available for the meeting. Have minutes taken by an independent person. Issue these minutes following the meeting.
A local councillor would be a good person to have as the independent witness - perhaps the chair of your Parish Council? Whilst independent if they have some technical nous you can get them to act in your favour - simply by applying tact and strategy. They could even back you and help present your case.
Basically, you need an audit trail that will stand up to court scrutiny. You also need to physically out number the incompetent MD. In addition you have to hit the arrogance of the MD and show that person you have ammunition in your guns.
Your argument about roof angles is a weak area for the meeting. Here you have fallen foul of a fundamental con common to many, and perhaps all, conservatory companies.
Best of luck!0 -
My take is you have an impossible situation here. I will re-iterate what I have already said - remove the conservatory roof and box gutter and start again.
Well, it looks as if that might not be quite so impossible now, as I've found a legal slip-up.
The company have breached their own T&Cs. Let's face it, if they mess up in a practical sense, their paperwork is likely to be similar, and it is.
The T&C state that anything not in the original contract must be itemised, the price agreed and then signed-for by both sides.
The gutter isn't in the original contract, or in the later addition to that. It must have been forgotten!
So, as I read this, we can't be forced to have it.
We have given the firm a fortnight to come up with a plan to achieve a 10 degree pitch with a different gutter. Our hope is that they can't, or won't, comply. We'd really prefer another company.0 -
I have vague recollections of you posting months back saying something was not priced in, or the figures were not adding up. So perhaps this is not a complete surprise?
What you are experiencing is par for the course from conservatory/double glazing companies. I reiterate comments made before - you are dealing with an unregulated industry with countless unskilled, semi skilled and dubious characters working in it. You have experienced this for yourself with all who have been involved. If you get another company in it will be more of the same, but this time round you will be wiser after the event.
You have three scenarios to take on board. First you have posted nothing to say 5 degrees is an unacceptable pitch. What happens if the company refuses to increase to 10 degrees? Second whose design concept and idea was it to introduce the vent units? Was this your idea? Third where do you stand on the structural works to your roof? They were never done before the conservatory was built.
5 degrees should, in theory, be adequate for a roof in typical conditions - which is why I have emphasised what have you established to condemn this.
I am dealing with one at present - this is failing not because of the pitch but because of sag. The seals cannot cope with the deflection. Not an area you have commented on but what have you checked and confirmed here?0 -
Thanks for acting as Devil's advocate.
At 5 degrees of pitch, the easy clean glass doesn't work. Pilkingons have published info on this.
10 degrees is what they said they were building, so that's what we understood we were paying for and we have a right to insist on that, or any other pitch below that, if good reasons exist for going lower. The point is, we were never consulted.
I have on record from the manufacturers' technical dept that <5 degrees is considered poor for water entrapment with roof lights and they issue warnings, so 5 degrees itself is marginal. A person exercising 'care and skill' in design would advise on this, wouldn't they? 4.9 degrees isn't some magic figure.
But in any event, our info was that we were getting 10 degrees.
Our position on the roof mods is that our builder offered these in May/June last year when the tiles were off, but he was told not to do anything. Seems plain enough to me where responsibility lies there. He wasn't to know what the company planned to do.0 -
If you have easy clean Pilkingtons, and you have this in writing, then you have established a case. Good.
The 10 degree we jointly suspect was lowered to reduce cost with the box gutter. But the box gutter detail looks completely wrong for your conservatory...
The roof light detail has always surprised me. Not something I would be a fan of. If you have established a minimum pitch here, and have this in writing, then good.
If it ends up in court you will need a witness statement from your builder saying he was advised not to do anything. A weakness here - the builder should have known much better than this! However strap detail box gutters are available, so push along these lines.
Your issue could be sag - and all the more so because your box gutter is not correctly fixed.
I assume you have done your maths and established the as built pitch is...whatever it is!0 -
UPDATE
We've now met with the company MD and surveyor.
They have accepted responsibility for inadequate fixing of the box gutter and tacitly agree that we were never consulted or informed over the box gutter details, thus breaking their own contract.
They do not dispute that self/easy clean glass needs 10 degrees to work properly, but argue that as it's the default provision, that's irrelevant! We have 5 degrees.
They think a tall box gutter would be 'obtrusive.' We think form follows function and that their aesthetic views aren't more important than ours.
They have agreed to replace the strange cut off sill on the porch with a straight one.
Despite this, after 90 minutes of to and fro, all of it recorded digitally by both parties, no overall conclusion was reached. Instead, MD will look into the cost of a new taller box gutter, then either offer to alter things to meet our expectations, or instead, offer us a cash discount.
We are pretty sure he will try the discount route next as it will be the easiest/cheapest option.0 -
FURTHER UPDATE:
It's now 3 weeks since the site meeting.
No offer has been received from the company. However, that's academic now, as we sent all the details to the GGF after two weeks of silence.
I'll post again when anything significant happens.0 -
FURTHER UPDATE:
It's now 3 weeks since the site meeting.
No offer has been received from the company. However, that's academic now, as we sent all the details to the GGF after two weeks of silence.
I'll post again when anything significant happens.
Your conservatory company are broadcasting loud and clear regarding their contempt for reasonable standards of design, contempt for reasonable standards of workmanship and contempt for concepts of warranty and customer service.
I do empathise with you - been there myself in the last week.
What have you got to loose? Name and shame the company so others will be warned before considering doing business with this bunch of cowboys.
Even if you drive them out of business, which might be a good move to all money saving consumers, I trust you have plenty of money held back to sort out the mess you find yourself in.0 -
I won't drive them out of business. They get mixed reviews, but on the whole people recommend them and they've been going for 40 years with the same directors.
This is part of the problem; the world's moved on since 1977! Their communications, show what a huge divide there is between my/their understanding of consumer legislation.
The funniest thing to come out of all this was when I took up the suggestion to get a local councillor to chair our meeting. Picking one I know well, I gave him a call. He replied that he'd love to, but it wouldn't be advisable, as he had 'escorted' the firm's MD off his premises when they'd messed-up big-time at his house back in 2002. He has a file like mine. It's even the same colour! :rotfl:
My councillor friend didn't get his roof sorted by them. In the end, he added a steel structure and put up a GRP roof. As a consequence, his living room is very dark.
I will name them, but I want to hear the GGF's take on this first.0 -
You and me have problems with conservatories.
I can only reiterate what I always say and hope Money Saving followers take heed. The conservatory industry is a huge, unregulated industry. It sails so close to the wind that is barely possible to differentiate between those that are sound and those that are are cowboys. It is an industry stuffed full with dodgy characters, spivs, and charlatans.
Any consumer wanting a conservatory needs to consider exactly what they are entering into. It truly defines the concept of "Buyer Beware".0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 343.3K Banking & Borrowing
- 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 449.7K Spending & Discounts
- 235.3K Work, Benefits & Business
- 608.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 173.1K Life & Family
- 248K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
- 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards