Wedding deposit + liabilites

ahmeras · 20 March 2017 at 1:55PM

HI folks.

This has been posted a few times, but im hoping mine is slightly different.

I made a deposit on a venue two weeks 3 days ago. unfortunately my wedding was cancelled in that time.

i called today to try and cancel the venue. I was expecting to lose my deposit of 1k. however they are now saying i am liable for 50% of the venue cost which is 3.5k ontop of my depo (wedding is in 6 months)

This is apprently part of the TsCs. I was never told this, nor is there information on their website. As well as this because of various postal issues, i never received the hard copies of the ts and cs. I notified them of this and they sent me an digital copy last thursday. I have not yet signed anything, just paid the depo over the phone

when i intially made the payment i never received any positive confirmation or receipt of the booking either. (via email). THis was meant to be what was int he post.

I am not sure what to do on this to be honest. I feel like i am being treated a bit unfairly given it has only been 2 weeks 3 days since i paid the depo. the venue is popular and before booking they told us they had enquiries for the date (sept 24th)

---edit : I have included the email I sent a couple of posts down with all the details of my conversations with the venue and events for peoples reference.

ahmeras · 20 March 2017 at 4:45PM

If it helps. They have no where posted an Ts and Cs. not even on their website. So on booking there is nothing for me to reference that this is what i am agreeing to.

DoaM · 20 March 2017 at 4:47PM

They cannot hold you to T&Cs that were not made clear in pre-contract discussions. Therefore the additional charge they want to make, tell them to swivel and take you to court for it - if they dare.

I'd also look at recovering your deposit too ... it is highly unlikely they've borne sufficient costs in 2.5 weeks to warrant keeping £1k.

Oakdene · 20 March 2017 at 4:48PM

ahmeras wrote: »

HI folks.

This has been posted a few times, but im hoping mine is slightly different.

I made a deposit on a venue two weeks 3 days ago. unfortunately my wedding was cancelled in that time.

i called today to try and cancel the venue. I was expecting to lose my deposit of 1k. however they are now saying i am liable for 50% of the venue cost which is 3.5k ontop of my depo (wedding is in 6 months)

This is apprently part of the TsCs. I was never told this, nor is there information on their website. As well as this because of various postal issues, i never received the hard copies of the ts and cs. I notified them of this and they sent me an digital copy last thursday. I have not yet signed anything, just paid the depo over the phone

when i intially made the payment i never received any positive confirmation or receipt of the booking either. (via email). THis was meant to be what was int he post.

I am not sure what to do on this to be honest. I feel like i am being treated a bit unfairly given it has only been 2 weeks 3 days since i paid the depo. the venue is popular and before booking they told us they had enquiries for the date (sept 24th)

Of course they will tell you that as they want you to think that if you don't book it, someone else will.

Did you receive the T&Cs after you paid the deposit? You would need to prove that you were not told about the cancellation policy at the time of booking really...

DoaM · 20 March 2017 at 5:21PM

If they said they posted the T&Cs etc., do they have proof of posting? If they don't then, if they weren't received then they weren't posted (as far as the law's concerned AIUI).

Undervalued · 20 March 2017 at 5:41PM

DoaM wrote: »

If they said they posted the T&Cs etc., do they have proof of posting? If they don't then, if they weren't received then they weren't posted (as far as the law's concerned AIUI).

For a civil case in England mail is normally presumed to have been delivered unless the recipient can show a history of mail problems etc. Yes, the sender would need to offer some evidence that they had actually sent it, but that doesn't necessarily have to be a certificate of posting. Ultimately the judge would have to decide, on the balance of probabilities, who he believes.

Regardless of any t & c, ultimately they cannot claim more than their actual losses (including reasonable admin costs). They would also be expected to have taken reasonable steps to minimise any losses (trying to resell, cancel ordered supplies etc).

On the face of it I doubt they would get more than the deposit if the sued and, as has been suggested, there is an argument some of that should be refunded.

DoaM · 20 March 2017 at 6:01PM

Undervalued wrote: »

Yes, the sender would need to offer some evidence that they had actually sent it, but that doesn't necessarily have to be a certificate of posting.

How else can you prove (on the balance of probabilities) that it was posted? Unless there is some physical evidence (e.g. a COP) then it's a he said/she said situation.

The rest of your post I agree with.

Undervalued · 20 March 2017 at 6:18PM

DoaM wrote: »

How else can you prove (on the balance of probabilities) that it was posted? Unless there is some physical evidence (e.g. a COP) then it's a he said/she said situation.

The rest of your post I agree with.

Evidence from other member of staff. Some sort of computer proof that the letter was produced increases the probability that it would have been sent. Well kept audit trail of work etc etc.

Remember a COP doesn't prove what was sent, just that an envelope was posted. It could have been something else or even empty!

As you said, it is the balance of probabilities not proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

naedanger · 20 March 2017 at 6:27PM

DoaM wrote: »

How else can you prove (on the balance of probabilities) that it was posted?

A witness statement. If your only evidence is you say you posted something it is still evidence. It will then be up to the judge to decide whether or not to believe you (on the balance of probabilities). (I completely agree having a COP is much better evidence.)

Unless there is some physical evidence (e.g. a COP) then it's a he said/she said situation.

Yes, it might be a he said/she said situation. In which case the judge perhaps has a more difficult job.

ahmeras · 20 March 2017 at 7:40PM

Thanks for the very informative advice guys.

This is the email I sent earlier today

As mentioned, none of the Ts&Cs were discussed on either open day or when i called up. They are not available anywhere online either.

As below - I did ask the team why this was not mentioned. Both sales and manager expressed "people dont usually cancel" so they dont feel the need to mention the cancellation policies with customers

Hi Victoria

As discussed over the phone earlier today My wedding on the 24th has been cancelled unfortunately.

I also do not agree with the charges you have stated (an additional £3500 - 50% of the event value) as cancellation fees and I should be entitled to my deposit back because of the following reasons:

· On both open day and when I called to initially pay my deposit, these cancellation terms were never stated. Your team has also admitted to me on the call today (20/03/2017) that they never discuss these with potential customers at either stage as “we don’t expect people to cancel”. As well as this, no information in this regard is available on your site/brochure which your team also confirmed to be the case today. This is completely unfair, that I am just expected to know this without ever being told or have anything to reference and am having to face such hefty charges unknowingly after my wedding being cancelled.
· As well as the above, no information was provided regarding when any paperwork had to be submitted by before grace periods are ended and cancellation fees are imposed. Reason given by your team was the same – that Is, the expectation is people don’t cancel so the information isn’t provided, so I was only made aware of these details today (20/03/2017). Once again this is not fair.
· There was also a delay in receiving the terms and conditions as these were sent by post, which I did not receive. I took every step I could to check on the status of the documents. I rang up your office and spoke to someone at reception as Charlotte was out and I mentioned that I had not received any positive confirmation of receipt of any payments/deposit made, nor had I received any documents from Fennes. I asked on the status of either of these, to which I was told that they would arrive and I should wait. I then later received the attached emails asking on the if I had signed the Ts & Cs, to which I replied I hadn’t yet received them and requested they be sent out to an alternative address. The documents were then emailed to me later that day (17/03/2017) but I only managed to see them late Friday(18/03/2017).
· Given that I have not signed the documents and therefore not accepted the terms and conditions yet, I don’t see how any of these cancellation fees can be imposed, especially since I only made the booking 2 weeks 3 days ago (approx. 11 working days). As mentioned previously, these are not available on your website either for reference so I was completely unaware. I have done my best to update you in a timely manner with my wedding being cancelled.
· I was also told by yourself that the terms and conditions become imposed after 14 days if not signed + returned and that this is stated in the Ts & Cs. Having read through the Ts & Cs again this is not stated anywhere. This fact was also never mentioned on the open day nor the initial phone call to pay the deposit. It seems completely unfair that you have attempted to enforce these Ts&Cs without ever making it clear to me or in the absence of anything being signed.

For the above reasons, the cancellation fee is incorrect. There may be additional grounds but sending this email in the interests of time

I feel as I am not being treated fairly, but I would like to resolve this as amicably as possible.

Given the popularity of the venue I see no reason why this can’t be rebooked. As well as this there is a duty to mitigate your losses as well as mine according to the Unfair Contract Terms Act. I have even gone to steps in advertising at my own cost on various websites.

Please let me know if you require any further information.

bris · 20 March 2017 at 7:41PM

Even with the lack of T&C's contract law still apples. There is no doubt you made a contract because actions also form contracts, in this case you paid a £1000 deposit to secure this contract.

They are entitled to there losses resulting in your breach of this contract, in this case it's loss of profit.

They need to mitigate these losses, Google that to see your rights on that but despite what the other posters say you're on the hook for this.

Wedding deposit + liabilites

Comments

Categories

Get our FREE Weekly email full of deals & guides - and it’s spam-free