Penalty fare appeal

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Ybe
Ybe Posts: 276 Forumite
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I was travelling on a train from London Kings Cross to Cambridge. The calling points were Finsbury Park, Stevenage, Cambridge. I had a zone 1-4 travelcard and when I saw the ticket inspector just as we left Finsbury Park, I asked for an extension ticket to Cambridge. At that point, I was given a penalty fare for having no ticket. The value of the penalty fare was twice the single fare from Kings Cross to Stevenage. Do I have any grounds for an appeal under National rail conditions of carriage? I believe I had a valid ticket from Kings Cross to Finsbury Park (Zone 4). Would I get either a partial or full refund of the penalty fare?
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  • Hasbeen
    Hasbeen Posts: 4,404 Forumite
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    Ybe wrote: »
    I was travelling on a train from London Kings Cross to Cambridge. The calling points were Finsbury Park, Stevenage, Cambridge. I had a zone 1-4 travelcard and when I saw the ticket inspector just as we left Finsbury Park, I asked for an extension ticket to Cambridge. At that point, I was given a penalty fare for having no ticket. The value of the penalty fare was twice the single fare from Kings Cross to Stevenage. Do I have any grounds for an appeal under National rail conditions of carriage? I believe I had a valid ticket from Kings Cross to Finsbury Park (Zone 4). Would I get either a partial or full refund of the penalty fare?

    I would say neither, you were travelling without a valid ticket and received a fixed penalty?

    But ask here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/forums/disputes-prosecutions.152/
    The world is not ruined by the wickedness of the wicked, but by the weakness of the good. Napoleon
  • giraffe69
    giraffe69 Posts: 3,558 Forumite
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    Didn't you try to defraud the rail company? Having a valid ticket to stop 1 (Finsbury Park) and then no ticket but deigning to seek to buy one when you saw the ticket inspector seems about as clear a case of fare evasion as you can have. I think it is pay up time and be grateful it is only a penalty fare.
    Sometimes the rail companies make it hard to say what the right fare/ticket might be but this does not seem like one of those occasions.
  • Ybe
    Ybe Posts: 276 Forumite
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    I have a zone 1-4 season ticket and I had intended to buy on board as I was running for the train. I approached the ticket inspector myself to buy a ticket. So if
  • Ybe
    Ybe Posts: 276 Forumite
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    ... so if I’ve interpreted the conditions of carriage correctly, I had a valid ticket for the first part of the journey before I boarded the train and I voluntarily asked to purchase the extension. Where in the conditions of carriage does it say you can’t buy an extension on board?
  • Gravedigger
    Gravedigger Posts: 159 Forumite
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    At the Zone 4 boundary you should have got off the train and bought a ticket for the onward journey. It would have helped if you had bought the extension at commencement of your journey. Because you did NOT have a valid ticket for onward journey you fell foul of the byelaws. Tough, but there it is
  • Ybe
    Ybe Posts: 276 Forumite
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    Fair enough. Then surely the penalty should be from zone 4 boundary to Stevenage and not kings cross to Stevenage.
  • stragglebod
    stragglebod Posts: 1,324 Forumite
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    Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Finsbury Park in zone 2? So if the train hadn't yet gone past Oakleigh Park/Winchmore Hill (depending on route) you were still in your travelcard zones.


    Post on the railforums site that @Hasbeen linked to - someone there will know if attempting to buy an extension while you're still in your zone protects you even if the next station is outside it.
  • Nick_C
    Nick_C Posts: 7,459 Forumite
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    According to https://www.transportfocus.org.uk/advice-and-complaints/faq/what-can-happen-if-i-am-on-a-train-without-a-valid-ticket/ the penalty fare is twice the single fare to the next stop or £20, whichever is greater. It would probably make no difference whether the fare was calculated from Kings Cross or Finsbury Park.

    You should of course have searched out the guard as soon as you boarded the train at Kings Cross.

    Lesson learned. And consider yourself lucky that they are not prosecuting.
  • Nick_C
    Nick_C Posts: 7,459 Forumite
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    stragglebod wrote: »
    So if the train hadn't yet gone past Oakleigh Park/Winchmore Hill (depending on route) you were still in your travelcard zones.

    The train wasn't stopping again until Stevenage though, so once the train left Finsbury Park, OP was travelling without a valid ticket.
  • stragglebod
    stragglebod Posts: 1,324 Forumite
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    Nick_C wrote: »
    The train wasn't stopping again until Stevenage though, so once the train left Finsbury Park, OP was travelling without a valid ticket.
    Are you certain of that?

    You might be right, or you might not be.

    OP needs to ask someone who really knows, not somebody who cherry picks one phrase of my post,without the context of the rest of what I said.
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