Penalty fare appeal

Nick_C

stragglebod wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong

Gladly

stragglebod wrote: »

Are you certain of that?

Yes

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/187936.aspx

... rail passengers must buy their tickets before they start their journey wherever there are facilities such as an open ticket office or working Ticket Vending Machine, that enables them to do so.

...

Penalty Fare Notices may be issued if a passenger,

travels without a valid ticket;
...
travels beyond the destination on their ticket.

...
To avoid paying a Penalty Fare, you must purchase a valid ticket to your destination for the class of travel you wish to use before starting your journey.

Once the train left Finsbury Park, the next station stop was Stevenage. OP did not have a valid ticket covering the journey from Finsbury Park to Stevenage.

Ybe

But there’s also this in the conditions of carriage.

If you are using a Season Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as a concessionary pass, ranger or rover in conjunction with another Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then the train does not need to call at that station for your combination to be valid.

Kite2010

Just be thankful there was revenue staff on the train rather than at Cambridge, as if there was RPIs on the Cambridge gateline it would have been more expensive than buying a boundary zone 4 - Cambridge ticket from the ticket office at Kings Cross

Nick_C

Ybe wrote: »

But there’s also this in the conditions of carriage.

If you are using a Season Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as a concessionary pass, ranger or rover in conjunction with another Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then the train does not need to call at that station for your combination to be valid.

Indeed, that is in the Conditions of Carriage, and it's a very useful condition.

Normally, when travelling on split tickets, the train must stop at the station where you have split your ticket. So if you could save money on a Kings Cross to Cambridge ticket by splitting it at Oakleigh Park, the tickets would only be valid if the train you were on stopped at Oakleigh Park.

The exception to this is for people who have season tickets. If you have a season ticket that covers London Zones 1 to 4, then you can travel to Cambridge with your season ticket and a ticket from Oakleigh Park to Cambridge, even though the train doesn't stop at Oakleigh Park.

This would have helped you if you had bought a ticket before getting on the train. Instead of buying a ticket to Cambridge from Finsbury Park, you could have bought a ticket from Oakley Park.

However, when the train left Finsbury Park, the next stop was Stevenage. You did not have a ticket for this part of your journey. This is why you had to pay a penalty fare.

Ybe

I agree but I think my argument also has validity as below.

The penalty fare was from Kings Cross to Stevenage. I had boarded the train at Kings Cross with a valid ticket up to Finsbury Park (purchased before boarding as it’s a season ticket). So if following the conditions of carriage to the letter without applying any common sense or judgement, the penalty fare should only be applied from Finsbury Park to Stevenage. There is a difference.

Ybe

Also some mention that train operators can prosecute but I thought railway penalty fares are like council parking fines and a civil matter unless of course you refuse to pay the penalty after unsuccessful appeal and they take you to court over it, or you deliberately tried to defraud the train company.

Nick_C

Penalty Fares are civil debts. They are used as an alternative to prosecution.

The Strategic Rail Authority made the Railway Bye Laws. They were approved by the Secretary of State.

You can be prosecuted for traveling without a ticket. Prosecutions are in the Magistrates Court and the penalty is a level 3 fine (and a criminal record).

Re the level of the penalty fare, I agree its unfair that it was calculated from King's Cross instead of Finsbury Park, but that is what the regulations prescribe.

Amount of penalty fare
9.—(1) Where a penalty fare is charged under regulation 5(1) to a person travelling by, present on, or leaving a train, the amount of that penalty fare is £20 or twice the full single fare applicable, whichever is greater.

(2) In paragraph (1), “the full single fare applicable” is the full single fare for the journey in question from the boarding station to—

(a)the next station at which the train is due to make a scheduled call; or
(b)the station at which the person leaves the train if, at the time the penalty fare is charged—
(i)the person is leaving the train; or
(ii)the train is stationary at a station and there is sufficient opportunity for the person charged to leave the train at that station.
(3) In paragraph (2), “the boarding station” means—

(a)the station at which the person boarded the train; or
(b)where the station mentioned in sub-paragraph (a) is not known to the collector, the station at which the train last made a scheduled call.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/366/made

Ybe

Apparently under that very regulation quoted, the inspector charged me the wrong amount for the penalty fare and hence invalidated it.

Ybe

And so I would have grounds for appeal.

Nick_C

Good luck. Do let us know how you get on