Universal credit and having shares

johnthenewbie · 23 October 2018 at 1:42PM

hello everyone,

I'm new here so if I make any mistakes please do guide me.

My question is, I have recently applied for UC and declared that I have shares of circa £9000. I was asked to provide evidence of the exact value of the shares and any income (dividends) generated from them. I provided the statements as requested to the Job centre but now they are asking me to provide them with the following details, which I find bizarre:
1) Which companies I have invested in
2) How many shares (not value) I have in each company
3) When I bought the shares

I don't understand how that information would be relevant in assessing my claim. The bottom line is I have provided the evidence of my capital and fall well below the £16k threshold.

To ask for this sort of info, is it something normal? I can't find any official guidance on this and when I asked the JC about this they literally just reiterated provide the evidence requested.

Thanks for any guidance and info.

marliepanda · 23 October 2018 at 1:57PM

You may have below the upper limit but you are above the lower limit of 6k, so it is in your interest to answer their questions.

Ineededaname · 23 October 2018 at 7:33PM

Not sure of the reasoning here but you have to comply with their request for information. You wont receive any payments until they have a valued amount for your capital. Between 6 and 16k your payments from UC will be reduced.

calcotti · 23 October 2018 at 8:53PM

“Tariff income rules

Capital or joint capital over £6,000 is treated as providing income, known as “tariff income”, of £4.35 per month for each additional £250 (or part thereof). For example capital of £6,250 gives monthly tariff income of £4.35. Capital of £6,250.01 gives a monthly tariff income of £8.70.

The lower limit is £6000, so any capital below £6000 is disregarded.

The upper limit is £16000, so anyone with savings (capital) over £16,000 cannot get Universal Credit.“

https://revenuebenefits.org.uk/universal-credit/guidance/entitlement-to-uc/capital-rules/

TELLIT01 · 23 October 2018 at 9:17PM

The reasons for needing the information is actually pretty straightforward. Share prices fluctuate and DWP needs to know the current value, not simply the value when purchased or on the date dividend was paid.

When I worked on ESA we didn't ask when they were purchased, but if UC asks for that you need to tell them or risk benefit being suspended.
Calcotti has explained the effect capital over £6k but below £16k has.

johnthenewbie · 24 October 2018 at 6:24PM

Thank you all for your responses. Of course I will be sharing the details with them, I just found the request slightly bizarre. I've never been on job seekers or UC so it's all new to me. But having been made redundant I had no choice. Once again, thank you and I hope I can help others out in this community.

TELLIT01 · 24 October 2018 at 7:40PM

No problem. Many other requests may come your way in your dealings with DWP which will seem much more bizarre than that one! Best advice is not to wonder why they want the information, just provide it. Saves a lot of head scratching that way. :-)

konark · 26 October 2018 at 12:34AM

There's nothing bizarre about those questions. How can they evaluate your capital without knowing which companies and how many shares you own.

On a broader note, share holdings are quite problematic for DWP because shares can rise and fall rapidly leaving the holder having more than £6k one week and less the next. Whether the DWP consult some sort of real-time valuation of your portfolio before they send your payment I don't know. TBH anything that makes the DWP's work harder means they'll just make your life harder, so tt's probably best to sell them and use the money to buy some essentials.

TELLIT01 · 26 October 2018 at 8:45AM

konark wrote: »

There's nothing bizarre about those questions. How can they evaluate your capital without knowing which companies and how many shares you own.

On a broader note, share holdings are quite problematic for DWP because shares can rise and fall rapidly leaving the holder having more than £6k one week and less the next. Whether the DWP consult some sort of real-time valuation of your portfolio before they send your payment I don't know. TBH anything that makes the DWP's work harder means they'll just make your life harder, so tt's probably best to sell them and use the money to buy some essentials.

Having shares is not a problem for DWP and their value isn't checked before a payment is released. In reality the vast majority of share values do not vary much on a day to day basis so the impact on potential entitlement is minimal. There is absolutely no reason to sell the shares unless the money is needed.

johnthenewbie · 31 October 2018 at 10:38PM

There's nothing bizarre about those questions. How can they evaluate your capital without knowing which companies and how many shares you own.

On a broader note, share holdings are quite problematic for DWP because shares can rise and fall rapidly leaving the holder having more than £6k one week and less the next. Whether the DWP consult some sort of real-time valuation of your portfolio before they send your payment I don't know. TBH anything that makes the DWP's work harder means they'll just make your life harder, so tt's probably best to sell them and use the money to buy some essentials.

Thanks, I have started to sell them and I think that is the best thing to do. What I find bizarre is that they first asked for the total value of the shares I hold and I showed this to them. Then 2 weeks later, they requested to know how many shares I hold and in which companies, amongst other things. What difference does it make to them if I hold £1000 in company X or £1000 in company Y? At the end of the day, their decision is based on my capital and I have shared this information with them, including a transaction history of any dividends I have received over the last 12 months. Whether it is company X or company Y that I have invested in is totally irrelevant in my opinion. They even asked for my account number with the stock brokers, again I find this highly irrelevant.

I have asked them three times to clarify the need for this information but as of yet they haven't and so after 3 months I haven't received a penny from them.

calcotti · 31 October 2018 at 11:34PM

They may simply want to verify the valuations you have provided.

Unfortunately, regardless of whether or not you see the need for the information, you clearly aren’t going to get your claim progressed unless you provide it. I can’t see your objection to providing it given that it is only, in essence, confirmation of information you’ve already given them.

The dividend income is not relevant (except insofar as it adds to your capital if you don’t spend it, or increases your shareholding if they are set up to be reinvested).

Universal credit and having shares

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